Result in

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
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Guy951
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Re: Result in

Postby Guy951 » 19 Jan 2011, 9:29am

From the Articles of Association

POLLS OF THE WHOLE CLUB

3. All decisions arrived at by a poll of the whole Club shall bind the Club and the Council for six months


What happens in six months time?
What manner of creature's this, being but half a fish and half a monster

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Mick F
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Re: Result in

Postby Mick F » 19 Jan 2011, 11:27am

Yes, I noted that.
Seems a bit strange.

I thought it must be something I didn't understand, perhaps some sort of legal clause.


....... and yes, we would be having this discussion if the vote went the other way, providing the vote was the same proportion. 75/25 of the members that voted, isn't "decisive" at all. Try that in a court of law with a jury!

12 members of the jury - 9 say Guilty and hang him, and 3 say Not Guilty let him go.
Or what about 12 members of a jury and 8 of them abstain?

Not decisive at all.
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: Result in

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Jan 2011, 11:38am

Guy951 wrote:From the Articles of Association

POLLS OF THE WHOLE CLUB

3. All decisions arrived at by a poll of the whole Club shall bind the Club and the Council for six months


What happens in six months time?


Presumably it's just a legal way of saying that you can't have a poll on a subject every five minutes, while leaving open the possiblity of change in due course.

John Catt
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Re: Result in

Postby John Catt » 19 Jan 2011, 5:49pm

thirdcrank wrote:Presumably it's just a legal way of saying that you can't have a poll on a subject every five minutes, while leaving open the possiblity of change in due course.


Bang on. In fact intriguingly I came across the blow by blow notes of the Special General Meeting held on the 13th November 1891when the rule about polling was introduced in an old Gazette I have photographed and put on the web at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/LandRCTC/CT ... directlink

At the time there was a tendency to hold a meeting at one end of the country and make a decision, only to have it reversed at another meeting at the other end of the country. I think this was the main reason the rules was introduced. It is apparent that "robust debate" was as strong tradition of the Club even at that time if you read the proceedings (you will need to use the magnifying glass option). The report starts on page 350 but the last 2 pages (359 & 360) cover the polling issue and I think make interesting reading. I think I could almost interchange some of the members from our Loughborough AGM with those attending that meeting 120 years ago :) .

As to majority decisions, at the last General Election there was a turnout of 65% and the combined Conservative/Liberal vote was 59% of that vote. So our government was elected by 39% of the electorate.

Local elections are lucky to get a turnout of 30%. A 25% participation level is very good for a voluntary organisation. The General Secretary of Unite was elected on a 16% turnout - see http://www.theprisma.co.uk/2010/11/22/u ... ts-are-in/

Indeed until about 3 years ago such decisions would have been taken at an AGM where you would be lucky to get 300 people turning up and there was no provision for proxy voting. Getting to the AGM involves considerable expense so that such meetings tended to be unrepresentative of the membership as a whole. We now involve a much higher proportion of the membership in our decisions.

Regards,

John

David Cox
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Re: Result in

Postby David Cox » 19 Jan 2011, 6:41pm

POLLS OF THE WHOLE CLUB

3. All decisions arrived at by a poll of the whole Club shall bind the Club and the Council for six months

The all member vote was an impressive turnout for any national membership organisation and the view is clear. However, the technical position is as stated above. This mandatory poll was required by the petitioners not the Council. Council will meet on Saturday and consider the poll outcomes. The process to make the detailed changes to the Memorandum and Articles still requires a proposal for another AGM and will require full discussion and another vote. A number of other issues about CTC governance will also have to be resolved by the time the AGM is held in Weymouth.

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robgul
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Re: Result in

Postby robgul » 20 Jan 2011, 8:41am

..... has the winner of the Gore-Tex jacket been announced yet :?:

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gaz
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Re: Result in

Postby gaz » 20 Jan 2011, 9:07am

Prize Draw Rules

Only entries from CTC members on a valid voting form for the Poll of the Whole Club published on 1st December 2010 received by the closing date for the poll will be acceptable. Only one prize per form received. No purchase necessary. The draw will be made on 21st January 2011. The winners will be notified by telephone, email or post. Delivery of prizes is normally 2 weeks from contact with the winners. There are no cash alternatives. The draw promoter is CTC, Parklands, Railton Road, Guildford GU2 9JX. Employees of CTC and their agents may not enter. Winners will be published in Cycle magazine.


It could be you.
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Edwards
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Re: Result in

Postby Edwards » 20 Jan 2011, 9:11am

robgul wrote:has the winner of the Gore-Tex jacket been announced yet


gaz wrote:It could be you.


Not me I jumped ship last year.
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

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Guy951
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Re: Result in

Postby Guy951 » 20 Jan 2011, 9:26am

gaz wrote:It could be you.

Won't be me. I voted "NO". :wink:
What manner of creature's this, being but half a fish and half a monster

Jonty

Re: Result in

Postby Jonty » 25 Jan 2011, 8:49am

A good result IMO. I voted Yes. IMO the case in favour of Charity status was overwhelming. I also thought it was presented clearly, objectively and dispassionately looking to the future. I though the responses from the CTC to my questions were clear, relevant, informative, dispassionate and reasonable.
In contrast I thought the case against was muddled, looked to the past, could not be decribed as dispassionate and lacked credibility. I got the distinct impression that some people would raise any issue to try and stop the proposal no matter how irrelevant thus compromising their credibility.
Anyway, let's move on. The decision has been made. :|
jonty

thirdcrank
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Re: Result in

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Jan 2011, 9:31am

Jonty wrote: ... Anyway, let's move on. The decision has been made. :|
jonty


During the Q & A seesion on here, your queries were IMO probing and relevant. I'm amazed that you should now make the comment I have quoted because the decision has not been made. An attempt to overturn a decision made at the AGM has been unsuccessful. The conversion still cannot go ahead without another vote.

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meic
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Re: Result in

Postby meic » 25 Jan 2011, 9:43am

It could be that he is actually accepting that the decision has been made. :lol:

Because as it is the decision that HAS been made is that our constitution stands as it is and we can NOT become a united charity.

So as we are "winning" at the moment, I agree with Jonty "lets move on". 8)
Yma o Hyd

swansonj
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Re: Result in

Postby swansonj » 25 Jan 2011, 2:28pm

meic wrote:It could be that he is actually accepting that the decision has been made. :lol:

Because as it is the decision that HAS been made is that our constitution stands as it is and we can NOT become a united charity.

So as we are "winning" at the moment, I agree with Jonty "lets move on". 8)


Oh come now, I don't follow this line of reasoning.

After the AGM, with a slight majority in favour of merger but a clear failure to get the size of majority required, Council would have been foolish to make another attempt to get the 75%, because (a) there was no indication they would get it and (b) they had no moral mandate from the club members so to do.

Now, I think they would have every right to proceed with another attempt to get 75% for the key motion, because (a) they now have reasonable grounds for believing they could get 75% under the right circumstances and (b) instead of a narrow majority of members saying they are favour they now have a substantial majority.

I was in the "no" camp and still am, but I try to face facts, and the way I see it, we are losing!

sadjack
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Re: Result in

Postby sadjack » 25 Jan 2011, 2:48pm

The problem with speaking about percentages and majorities is that because of the apathy of so many people not voting in either direction, we are quibbling about percentages of a small vote. The only substantial majority is the silent majority who don't seem to care, maybe because they only joined for the insurance, who knows. If we get another vote on ammending things to allow charity status and we get another small percentage voting, whoever wins cannot say they have a substantial majority of the members, which I for one find quite sad.

But for the life of me I cannot think of a way to get people to vote unless its done locally and each DA/PMG canvass their own, but is that allowed?

It would be good for everyone if we could just have one final vote, get as many people as possible to cast their vote one way or another and then just abide by whatever the result is and get back to riding our bikes :D

Jonty

Re: Result in

Postby Jonty » 25 Jan 2011, 3:35pm

This still hasn't been resolved yet? It's still on-going? Forget it - I'm going to have a cup of tea and clean my bike. Great ride yesterday. Pity my right knee started creaking 5 miles from home.
jonty