New Membership Cycling Organisation

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
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gaz
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby gaz » 27 Jan 2011, 9:33am

Jonty wrote:.... What I and others were challenging was the assertion of bikerpauline that "There has always been a Big Brother on this forum. His job is usually to remove any post even mildly critical of council and management."...


I'm one of the others who has been challenging that assertion. :lol:

However the quote you challenged from bikerpauline was "How do we know when posts have been removed or edited?"

I was showing that there is evidence that posts are removed and edited and that it is not always obvious when this has happened.

Jonty wrote:IMO there has been no attempt to stifle open debate on the Charity proposal by the CTC either intentionally or unintentionally.


So far as this forum is concerned I agree.
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iron legs
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby iron legs » 2 Feb 2011, 8:06pm

Just caught this thread. CTC failed to mount a timely and effective campaign against compulsory wearing of helmets in Northern Ireland. The legislation was passed on 31-01-2011.

It is also a timely comment on the charity debate. For years our subscriptions have been syphoned off and increased to support cycle campaigning in some areas of the UK without fulling disclosing what was going on to the membership. How much did the CTC spend in Northern Ireland as a percentage of their overall campaigning budget year on year? The proposer for the charity motion was Mr Flood, the council representative from Northern Ireland. Great things were promised and members exhorted to support this 'all singing bells and whistles necessity' which was essential to bulwark cycling and protect the interest of all cyclists in the UK. I think the facts now speak for themselves as the CTC campaign has been acknowledged as late and ineffective. Has the action of the 'CTC Charity' been in the interests of all cyclists and how will the ramifications of this legislation pan out both within Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK? How will insurance companies interpret this when dealing with compensation for cyclists injured in the rest of the UK where a precedent for the compulsory wearing of helmets has been allowed to be established?

The question now is, does the CTC represent value for money in terms of membership? It cannot claim to be a national organisation any longer when it has clearly failed to mount an effective challenge to this legislation. The ambivalence shown by the CTC in recognising the threat and dealing with the issue in a timely fashion has failed cyclists in the Northern Ireland region but has the potential to cause harm in the rest of the UK. Does the CTC any longer does what it says on the tin?

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Graham
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby Graham » 2 Feb 2011, 9:24pm

iron legs wrote:Just caught this thread. CTC failed to mount a timely and effective campaign against compulsory wearing of helmets in Northern Ireland. The legislation was passed on 31-01-2011.

My understanding is that this Bill has been passed through the second stage on the NI Assembly legislative procedure.
There are still several stages to go.
Read this topic/post

I expect that the interested organisations are all working hard to secure their desired outcomes.

iron legs
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby iron legs » 2 Feb 2011, 10:13pm

My understanding is that the bill reached the second stage without an effective lobbying campaign being run.

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meic
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby meic » 2 Feb 2011, 10:17pm

iron legs wrote:My understanding is that the bill reached the second stage without an effective lobbying campaign being run.


You mean there was some lobbying done?

I can live with them failing, its the idea that they didnt try that would worry me.
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thirdcrank
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Feb 2011, 10:23pm

Graham

From my reading of your detailed post on the other thread and with absolutely no prior knowledge of the NI system, it looks to me as though it's all over bar the shouting. Anything in the remaining stages looks to be just fiddling with the edges. I hope I'm wrong because this will be the trojan horse to get it passed in the rest of the UK, or at least in England. (I've no idea whether or not helmets are a devolved issue.)

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meic
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby meic » 2 Feb 2011, 10:26pm

I hope you dont as we dont have our vote until March and it would be annoying if England had already decided the answer.

I dont know what would be worse, cycling in England or cycling with a helmet on?

Then again we dont actually have any Police around here.
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Graham
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby Graham » 2 Feb 2011, 10:34pm

meic wrote:Then again we dont actually have any Police around here.

The profound danger will come from the vigilante motorists.

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robgul
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby robgul » 3 Feb 2011, 8:22am

Graham wrote:
meic wrote:Then again we dont actually have any Police around here.

The profound danger will come from the vigilante motorists.


.... who will, of course, phone to report errant cyclists as he's driving along.

[That said - I'm a helmet believer so I should be OK :twisted: ]

Rob

David Cox
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby David Cox » 3 Feb 2011, 5:47pm

I checked with Northern Ireland (and rest of world) councillor Barry Flood. "Campaigners against compulsion are pulling out all the stops for Committee Stage in about 4 weeks. It's a long way from becoming law at this stage, but we're meeting powerful opposers...BMA in NI came out in favour today. Sustrans/CTC now jointly funding a political consultant for the long haul."

Thanks to Tim Edgar CTC employee who has done radio and TV interviews and to our RtR Rep Tom McClelland is extremely active politically on this.

David

glueman
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby glueman » 4 Feb 2011, 4:59am

iron legs wrote: I think the facts now speak for themselves as the CTC campaign has been acknowledged as late and ineffective.


One of the things that always troubled me about the CTC's campaigning claims is there's no yardstick against which to measure them. There have certainly been modest victories in a few key areas but how do we not know an alternative or competitor organisation would not have achieved even greater victories for cyclists?

The usual response is CTC are under-staffed and under-funded to do the work they'd like to but suppose an organisation were to adopt a higher public profile or be more militant or develop interest through a wide scale grassroots network? How do we know that isn't the way forward and the club hasn't simply become monolithic and unresponsive?

Nutsey
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby Nutsey » 4 Feb 2011, 6:32am

Shotgun President! :D

glueman
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby glueman » 4 Feb 2011, 8:47am

Nutsey wrote:Shotgun President! :D

My suspicions are confirmed.

Regulator
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby Regulator » 4 Feb 2011, 9:25am

glueman wrote:
iron legs wrote: I think the facts now speak for themselves as the CTC campaign has been acknowledged as late and ineffective.


The usual response is CTC are under-staffed and under-funded to do the work they'd like to but suppose an organisation were to adopt a higher public profile or be more militant or develop interest through a wide scale grassroots network? How do we know that isn't the way forward and the club hasn't simply become monolithic and unresponsive?



CTC isn't 'under-staffed' and 'under-funded' - it is just concentrating its resources on other things. Plus, of course, it wouldn't want to campaign too hard in the interests of cyclists (e.g. against mandatory helmet laws or for the rights of cyclists on the road), as this may upset the people giving it grants (i.e. the Department for Transport, which is in thrall to the motorist).

Regulator
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Re: New Membership Cycling Organisation

Postby Regulator » 4 Feb 2011, 10:13am

David Cox wrote:I checked with Northern Ireland (and rest of world) councillor Barry Flood. "Campaigners against compulsion are pulling out all the stops for Committee Stage in about 4 weeks. It's a long way from becoming law at this stage, but we're meeting powerful opposers...BMA in NI came out in favour today. Sustrans/CTC now jointly funding a political consultant for the long haul."

Thanks to Tim Edgar CTC employee who has done radio and TV interviews and to our RtR Rep Tom McClelland is extremely active politically on this.

David



How come this never came up at recent Council meetings - why were councilors not briefed on what was happening? How come there doesn't appear to have been any press coverage of a CTC campaign (prior to the coverage after the passing at second reading)? How come when some of us were briefed on the campaigns that were ongoing recently, there was no mention of Northern Ireland?

After all, Ramsey's been pushing this since 2008 and tabled his Bill in August last year. How come it was only discussed by Council last month?
Last edited by Regulator on 4 Feb 2011, 2:23pm, edited 1 time in total.