CTC Charity Application Rejected

A place to discuss the issues relating to the proposed change in the national CTC’s structure.
User avatar
cyclamity
Posts: 9
Joined: 7 Oct 2008, 4:38pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby cyclamity » 26 Oct 2011, 8:52am

As Regulator says, this rejection may well be just a hiccup. However, I was disquieted to read the Chief Executive's statement on this forum, addressed rather disparagingly only to those with an open mind (i.e. the same as his), which gives cause for concern. Facts are welcome, but in short supply. To say that the rejection by the Charity Commissioners "is certainly not something I assumed we would be putting on the website" show an unhealthy disdain towards the members of this club.

To remain silent about the outcome of an issue that has caused so much dissent among club members and required not one but two national votes, is not acceptable. A five minute discussion at a Council meeting, open to members who do not attend, is hardly open government.

To say that the issue bores some members is no justification for silence. The Chief Executive has a responsibility to keep members fully informed of the detail of what is happening and why. Failure to do so might well be considered neglect of duty.

We have Cycleclips for those online; we have Cycle magazine for all. It is his duty to provide a full, clear and objective report to members at the latest in the next issue of Cycle. Whether he likes it or not, he is the servant of members, not their master. He should use the resources at his disposal not to hide the facts, but to clarify:

1. what has happened to the application?
2. on what grounds has it been rejected?
3. what steps are now proposed?
4. What changes, if any, to the Memorandum and Articles of Association, agreed by members at the last AGM, are now being considered?
5. What consultation will take place and, if changes are significant, what steps will be taken to seeek member approval?

All we have been told is: that the Charity Commissioners "have some concerns that we will need to address before we can go ahead" and "if we need to make some changes to smooth our way past the Commissioners we will do so in due course". If? How dismissive! What concerns and what changes?

It may be that the changes required by the Charity Commissioners are minor, uncontroversial and easily adopted. The problem is: we just do not know, and the Chief Executive does not want to tell us. Perhaps the Charity Commissioners will.

swansonj
Posts: 321
Joined: 18 Sep 2007, 9:53pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby swansonj » 26 Oct 2011, 1:54pm

Cyclamity: I agree with everything you say. But when you say:

cyclamity wrote:Whether he likes it or not, he is the servant of members, not their master.


I think the response is: not for much longer ... because as soon as the CTC converts to a charity, he ceases to be the servant of the members and becomes the servant solely of the Trustees, and the members cease to be the ultimate governing authority of the CTC.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28687
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Oct 2011, 3:50pm

Perhaps the point that has not sunk in is that the significant staff reductions (and other attempts to rein in spending) at the Charities Commission are only one part of The Big Society.

User avatar
Simon L6
Posts: 1382
Joined: 4 Jan 2007, 12:43pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Simon L6 » 26 Oct 2011, 7:36pm

so what were the reasons?

And the reason why things are only discussed for five minutes in Council is that they are stitched up ahead of time on the Management Committee. Anybody pressing for answers that might be recorded in the minutes is given short shrift by the Chair

Regulator
Posts: 523
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 10:13am

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Regulator » 27 Oct 2011, 7:18am

Still nothing about this on the CTC web-site that I can see.

Why are National Office and Council so keen to keep this from members?

One might also ask why National Office has not shared the Charity Commission's rejection letter, with its reasons, with all Council members?

User avatar
Simon L6
Posts: 1382
Joined: 4 Jan 2007, 12:43pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Simon L6 » 27 Oct 2011, 10:56am

Regulator wrote:Still nothing about this on the CTC web-site that I can see.

Why are National Office and Council so keen to keep this from members?

One might also ask why National Office has not shared the Charity Commission's rejection letter, with its reasons, with all Council members?
my case (see above) reclines on the divan and lights an aromatic cheroot etc., etc., etc

User avatar
Guy951
Posts: 1596
Joined: 14 Jul 2009, 8:23am
Location: Mid Beds

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Guy951 » 27 Oct 2011, 11:40am

Regulator wrote:One might also ask why National Office has not shared the Charity Commission's rejection letter, with its reasons, with all Council members?

Probably for the same reasons they wouldn't tell us exactly why becoming a charity was such a brilliant thing.
What manner of creature's this, being but half a fish and half a monster

stewartpratt
Posts: 2566
Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby stewartpratt » 27 Oct 2011, 12:31pm

Kevin Mayne wrote:However for those with a more open mind I would just comment that Greg got his report from the Council meeting that took place last Saturday. That’s a meeting any member can attend, but by and large they chose not to.


Unless I've got the wrong end of a stick, this seems a frankly bizarre comment in the 21st century. You don't disseminate information at a meeting and just expect a wide national membership to just turn up. (And I'm guessing the meeting wasn't in a 50,000 seat venue in expectation of all the members turning up.) Information travels unfettered by time and space on the Internet, it's no longer restricted to a specific time in a specific location.

At least, it does if whoever holds that information wants it to travel.

Also, FWIW I googled "ctc council meetings" and eventually found my way to the Meeting page which says "agendas for all meetings will appear on the website one week before the meeting". Not a sausage on there for October, though. Or even July.

User avatar
Simon L6
Posts: 1382
Joined: 4 Jan 2007, 12:43pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Simon L6 » 27 Oct 2011, 1:08pm

the Charities Commission will only release information to the Trustees. As in not the Directors/Councillors

User avatar
robgul
Posts: 2963
Joined: 8 Jan 2007, 8:40pm
Contact:

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby robgul » 27 Oct 2011, 1:21pm

The text of this message as posted got changed through a system error ...

The gist of my original comment has been made by Regulator a couple of posts down ...

Rob
Last edited by robgul on 27 Oct 2011, 1:41pm, edited 2 times in total.

Regulator
Posts: 523
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 10:13am

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Regulator » 27 Oct 2011, 1:35pm

Simon L6 wrote:the Charities Commission will only release information to the Trustees. As in not the Directors/Councillors


Not in this case. This was the application from the Club to become a charity. As it is not a charity at present, then there are no trustees and any response would have been to the Club as the applicant (i.e. to the directors who are, of course, the Councillors).

User avatar
Simon L6
Posts: 1382
Joined: 4 Jan 2007, 12:43pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Simon L6 » 27 Oct 2011, 1:37pm

Regulator wrote:
Simon L6 wrote:the Charities Commission will only release information to the Trustees. As in not the Directors/Councillors


Not in this case. This was the application from the Club to become a charity. As it is not a charity at present, then there are no trustees and any response would have been to the Club as the applicant (i.e. to the directors who are, of course, the Councillors).
well I'm quoting [an employee of the Charities Commission] who can be reached on 0845 3000 218 (ref 5020287) and [they say] trustees. And [this employee is] the one that offed that application. Perhaps the would-be trustees were named on the application?

NOTE: I have screwed up Rob's post above. Apparently I have powers I thought long gone. My intention was to reply, not to edit it. Apologies all round

[Admin: edited to remove personal name of a Charities Commission employee, replaced by text in italic square brackets]

stewartpratt
Posts: 2566
Joined: 27 Dec 2007, 5:12pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby stewartpratt » 27 Oct 2011, 1:47pm

Isn't this academic? Surely whoever receives the information from the Charities Commission is at liberty to pass it on.

Regulator
Posts: 523
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 10:13am

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Regulator » 27 Oct 2011, 1:48pm

Simon L6 wrote:
Regulator wrote:
Simon L6 wrote:the Charities Commission will only release information to the Trustees. As in not the Directors/Councillors


Not in this case. This was the application from the Club to become a charity. As it is not a charity at present, then there are no trustees and any response would have been to the Club as the applicant (i.e. to the directors who are, of course, the Councillors).
well I'm quoting [an employee of the Charities Commission] who can be reached on 0845 3000 218 (ref 5020287) and [they say] trustees. And [this employee is] the one that offed that application. Perhaps the would-be trustees were named on the application?

NOTE: I have screwed up Rob's post above. Apparently I have powers I thought long gone. My intention was to reply, not to edit it. Apologies all round



Even if that were the case, under the amended MeM and Arts all the councillors are trustees and therefore the information should have been provided to all of them.

The simple explanation is that, once again, National Office and The Clique are witholding relevant information from their fellow directors, which they are entitled to see.

User avatar
Simon L6
Posts: 1382
Joined: 4 Jan 2007, 12:43pm

Re: CTC Charity Application Rejected

Postby Simon L6 » 27 Oct 2011, 2:47pm

stewartpratt wrote:Isn't this academic? Surely whoever receives the information from the Charities Commission is at liberty to pass it on.
I take your point. Ponder, if you will, the iron-clad discipline of all those in the know