Event helmet cobblers

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
fastpedaller
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby fastpedaller » 9 Oct 2018, 5:19pm

Even better is (If you are not accepted to 'ride the event') - If it is on public roads to just happen to be riding along that road on the day! Will they challenge you for not wearing the lid? I've been almost knocked off whilst riding along a route being used for a sportive, when I was going straight on, but their 'helper' decided I was on their ride and tried to make me go Left. I had no helmet on ( I don't wear one). The only helmet I use is if I'm in a loft area - I used to wear a hardhat, but found it too cumbersome, so just wear a 'bump -hat' which offers less protection, but doesn't slip off all the time and gives 3 inches more clearance.

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mjr
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby mjr » 9 Oct 2018, 5:45pm

Mick F wrote:[...] Perusing the Eden website, I found they're doing cycle Eden Classic next year. [...] Let's see what they say in reply! :D

If they say it's for insurance, could you ask for a copy of the policy, please? It would be useful to know which insurers to avoid.

I fear my desire to visit Eden (we'd finally started planning to visit next year after N years of putting it off) may be about to suddenly wane.
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Mick F
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby Mick F » 10 Oct 2018, 6:07am

I may ask why car occupants don't wear helmets when they are far more likely to be admitted to A+E with a head injury than anyone on a bike.
Mick F. Cornwall

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Oct 2018, 8:39am

Mick F wrote:I may ask why car occupants don't wear helmets when they are far more likely to be admitted to A+E with a head injury than anyone on a bike.



Because bikes are dangeeeeerrroooouussssss..... and cars are safe.. Noone ever got hurt in a car did they...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby The utility cyclist » 11 Oct 2018, 6:03am

Mick F wrote:I may ask why car occupants don't wear helmets when they are far more likely to be admitted to A+E with a head injury than anyone on a bike.

US stats show no decrease in child* death stats over the last 7 years despite helmet wearing laws becoming more prevalent (the number of deaths is between roughly 30-40-yr over that period), over the same eriod there are more children dying as a % of overall road deaths whilst occupants of a motorvehicle and approx 22x the number of deaths compared to child cyclists. That's despite all the increases in so called safety kit in motors, they'd surely be better off promoting helmet laws for kids in cars before those on bikes :roll:
*children 13 or under

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Cugel
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby Cugel » 11 Oct 2018, 8:43am

As time goes on, I've come to the conclusion that there will be little policy or behaviour concerning cycling helmets that's informed by evidence, facts, logic or any of those modes of thinking we all claim to use when making decisions. Rather, any change will be driven by the evolutions of fashion, which tends to the illogical, unreasoning or even downright stupid. When there is "evidence" that it's unfashionable to wear a cycling helmet, their use will decrease markedly and rapidly.

Of course, those previously of the helmet-fascist ilk will find "reasons" for having changed their minds. Many will become fascist in favour of not wearing a helmet.

How to bring about such a change in fashion? Alas, the fashion memes are in charge of that. The whole nature of fashion is that we follow it. Well, some of us do. :-)

Cugel

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Mick F
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby Mick F » 11 Oct 2018, 9:18am

Cugel wrote:A The whole nature of fashion is that we follow it. Well, some of us do. :-)
Ain't that the truth! :D


No reply to my email yet.
Mick F. Cornwall

amediasatex
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby amediasatex » 11 Oct 2018, 10:23am

Mick F wrote:No reply to my email yet.


Mick, unless there's more to that FAQ then you posted I can't help but notice that they say 'a' helmet is mandatory, but not specifically that a cycle helmet (or which standards) is necessary... perhaps you might enjoy riding in one of these?

Image

Certainly looks like it will improve safety to me ;-)

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Mick F
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby Mick F » 11 Oct 2018, 10:38am

I got a reply! :D

Dear Mick,

You are correct, helmets are mandatory for Eden Classic events. We run this event in accordance to British Cycling guidelines, which dictates along with our insurance requires that helmets are mandatory.

We have a duty of care to all of our cyclists and we believe that helmets should be worn for the duration of this event. We are assured that many of our riders are experienced cyclists, however this is a mass participation event with 1200 riders taking oart this year and accidents can occur.

Kind Regards
Emma

Emma Halliday
Event Manager |Eden Project


Do British Cycling guidelines state for helmets to be worn?
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about ... icy-0?c=EN
British Cycling recommends wearing a correctly fitted helmet while cycling however we also support the right of each individual to choose whether or not to accept this recommendation and recognise the limit to the protection that helmets provide.
Mick F. Cornwall

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meic
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby meic » 11 Oct 2018, 10:53am

Mick, you left off the next sentence from that British Cycling quote.
Please note that while taking part in a British Cycling-sanctioned race or sportive, the use of a helmet conforming to a recognised safety standard is mandatory.
Yma o Hyd

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Mick F
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby Mick F » 11 Oct 2018, 11:07am

Yes, I did, but it's not saying that helmets are mandatory, but that if you wear one, it must conform to the recognised safety standards.
This stops people wearing any old helmet like a bump hat ......................... or even a Victorian copper's helmet.

....................... or at least that's how I interpret that paragraph.
If I'm correct, and you and Eden are interpreting it differently, it must mean that it's badly worded.

I don't want to take this further with Eden because I have no intention of riding one of their sportives. If I did kick up a stink - and maybe won the argument - I'd be sort of obliged to join in.
Mick F. Cornwall

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mjr
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby mjr » 11 Oct 2018, 11:09am

Mick F wrote:Do British Cycling guidelines state for helmets to be worn?
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about ... icy-0?c=EN

Yes, sadly. Their "guidelines" for non-competitive events (which are requirements organisers have to obey if they want to be listed or insured by BC, not really guidelines) require helmets, ban various types of cycle including e-bikes and recumbents and, as you notice, contradict BC's own helmet policy!

Based on my past correspondence with them, I strongly suspect there's one or more helmet zealots in BC's sportive department and BC's democracy is even more ineffective than CUK's, so they can do whatever the hell they want with impunity as long as the listing/insurance fees keep rolling in quickly enough... and given that BC has required helmets for non-time-trial competitive events for so long and consequently most local clubs force helmets, I wouldn't have much faith in its democracy changing things for the better anyway, so maybe best not to attempt that yet.

I suspect that a big reason BC's helmet policy is better than the sportive rules is thanks to a few powerful individuals like Chris Boardman. However, asking then-BC-Ambassador Boardman if he would act to bring sportives in line with policy got several people (including me) blocked by him on social media in short order.
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meic
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby meic » 11 Oct 2018, 11:11am

Yes, I did, but it's not saying that helmets are mandatory, but that if you wear one, it must conform to the recognised safety standards.

That is not how I interpret it.
I interpret it as saying that the wearing of the helmet is mandatory and that the mandatory helmet conforms to the standards.
Yma o Hyd

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Mick F
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby Mick F » 11 Oct 2018, 2:04pm

I've just shown the statement to the font of all knowledge and the font of all good sentence formation.

She agrees that the statement says that the if you wear a helmet, it is mandatory that it conforms.
NOT that it's mandatory to wear a helmet.

The previous paragraph has already stated the fact that helmets aren't compulsory.
The whole thing is ambiguous?

Here's the whole thing for clarity ......... except it's not actually clear. :lol:
Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 14.02.43.png
Mick F. Cornwall

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mjr
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Re: Event helmet cobblers

Postby mjr » 11 Oct 2018, 2:30pm

That is not the whole thing. Find the full "guidelines" PDF.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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