Carrying a helmet with you

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
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Mick F
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Carrying a helmet with you

Postby Mick F » 28 Nov 2015, 8:57am

Front cover of the latest Cycle mag Dec/Jan.
A couple on a tandem in the sunshine.
This is not a comment on CTC, their magazine or their policies.

Seeing that photo made me wonder why anyone would carry a helmet with their luggage? I've seen it locally too, not just in magazines.

Why CARRY a helmet and not wear it?
If you think a helmet is necessary, why is it only necessary on occasion, and not all the time?
Mick F. Cornwall

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby [XAP]Bob » 28 Nov 2015, 9:15am

Uphill the speeds are lower and the heat greater?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby Cunobelin » 28 Nov 2015, 9:24am

Because people are able to determine their own risk and vulnerability?

If someone decides that on one part of the journey their risk evaluation suggests a helmet is required then they wear it, and on another part they don't feel it necessary then they don't

I have tried to explain this before unsuccessfully, but for example:

in the morning it is frosty and icy ... there is a greater chance of losing grip and coming off..... and a helmet is worn
At lunchtime the ice and frost has dissipated, so the risk is reduced - a helmet is not worn

sjs
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby sjs » 28 Nov 2015, 10:45am

Cunobelin wrote:Because people are able to determine their own risk and vulnerability?

If someone decides that on one part of the journey their risk evaluation suggests a helmet is required then they wear it, and on another part they don't feel it necessary then they don't

I have tried to explain this before unsuccessfully, but for example:

in the morning it is frosty and icy ... there is a greater chance of losing grip and coming off..... and a helmet is worn
At lunchtime the ice and frost has dissipated, so the risk is reduced - a helmet is not worn


I've done it; short tour in East Anglia in hot weather, only wore helmet to traverse Norwich. I don't know whether helmets confer any benefit or not, but if they do, and at the cost of some discomfort, it makes sense to judge whether to wear one based on the perceived risk.

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Mick F
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby Mick F » 28 Nov 2015, 10:56am

sjs wrote:.......... it makes sense to judge whether to wear one based on the perceived risk.
It's the "perceived" risk that is my point.

Is the wearing of a helmet about the perceived risk or the actual risk?
Why is riding through a town more risky than on poor tarmac in the mountains?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not tub-thumping here. I wore a helmet for ten years or more but only when out riding "properly" but never when just nipping to the shops.

My brother-in-law was down with us last week and I mentioned that I don't wear a helmet any more, and he rounded on me and said how irresponsible I was. I reminded him that when he was working some few years ago, part of his job was visiting people and he had a fold-up bike in the boot of his car so he would hop on the bike from time-to-time whist leaving the car in a carpark.

I asked HIM if he wore a helmet, and he said he didn't. We never really finished the conversation off but I detected dual standards in his opinions.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby Vorpal » 28 Nov 2015, 11:01am

Maybe because they are doing a multi-country tour and some of the countries they are going to have helmet laws?
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 28 Nov 2015, 11:17am

Hi,
I mainly wear a helmet for other than safety reasons.

If you are that opposed to wear but carry in full view, you are not confident enough I.M.O.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 28 Nov 2015, 11:30am

Hi,
Cunobelin wrote:Because people are able to determine their own risk and vulnerability?

If someone decides that on one part of the journey their risk evaluation suggests a helmet is required then they wear it, and on another part they don't feel it necessary then they don't

I have tried to explain this before unsuccessfully, but for example:

in the morning it is frosty and icy ... there is a greater chance of losing grip and coming off..... and a helmet is worn
At lunchtime the ice and frost has dissipated, so the risk is reduced - a helmet is not worn


That means you can tell when whether your fault or not a accident is more or less likely.
Chance is a better bet if you have ever woken up in hospital after a fall.

If you have children do you let them decide whether to don or not :?:

Ice..........fell off three times in three miles....trip was 3.3 miles, was barely moving on each incident, forty years ago and haven't had an ice incident since.
My wet rides take longer any risk of ice and will be longer again.
So you look at forecast and look out side and you would ride accordingly....................if you follow that rule and you come across ice black or not then you would of dismounted and falling walking would be just as hazardous or you will be moving slowly and a fall will be part expected.

So fall in ice will be low speed like falls off road are the same for the reason that you assess constantly the ground conditions and adjust speed to suit.
Isn't that is what safe travel is....................................
So a fall on head is less likely on your own or result of weather..............a fall due to being pushed at speed and head injury is more likely I.M.O.
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Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby PhilWhitehurst » 28 Nov 2015, 3:36pm

It's always based on perceived risk.

If you wore a helmet based on the evidence of a head injury you'd wear on for driving, walking, taking a shower etc. It may be that they are on a tour with a mix of hilly and flat riding and they like to wear helmet on fast downhills but don't bother on flat / undulating terrain where the risks are minuscule

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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby Heltor Chasca » 28 Nov 2015, 4:09pm

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pjclinch
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby pjclinch » 29 Nov 2015, 11:36am

Mick F wrote:Is the wearing of a helmet about the perceived risk or the actual risk?


If you think about it, "perceived risk" is what an individual thinks the risk is. That is what they have to go on, so that is the basis of the decision.

For any given individual, that perception will be based on different things. If you base yours on published accident figures rather than, say, what your pet astrologer says, your perception has a better chance of being close to actuality, but however accurate it's still a perception, and even if you're perfectly accurate at 1 micromort then if that 1-in-million comes up, you're still dead.

Pete
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Mick F
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby Mick F » 29 Nov 2015, 2:06pm

.............. so it comes down to philosophy?
My perception is not the same as your perception?

I can agree with that as an argument.

Still seems strange to me that someone would carry a helmet and not wear it. Either a helmet is a good idea or it's NOT a good idea. You can't have it both ways.

Maybe it's that Vorpal has hit the nail on the head (so to speak).
Vorpal wrote:Maybe because they are doing a multi-country tour and some of the countries they are going to have helmet laws?
Maybe they don't want to wear a helmet, but at times they are FORCED to wear one?
Mick F. Cornwall

TonyR
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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby TonyR » 29 Nov 2015, 3:01pm

Mick F wrote:Still seems strange to me that someone would carry a helmet and not wear it. Either a helmet is a good idea or it's NOT a good idea. You can't have it both ways.


Given what has been said on here before I wouldn't be at all surprised if some people wore them until they were out of sight of home and then put them back on for the last few yards home at the end.

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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby Steady rider » 29 Nov 2015, 4:52pm

One chap told me he wears one when in a group, increase risk he assumes, and not when cycling alone.

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Re: Carrying a helmet with you

Postby pjclinch » 29 Nov 2015, 5:58pm

In NL helmet wearing correlates with sport cycling (I don't have proper figures but every time I'm there the chain gangs have Lycra, helmets and road bikes, and others are mostly on oma/opafiets and normal clothes). Overall wearing rate is < 1% but hospital admissions are ~13% helmeted, so one might reasonably conclude sporting riding is riskier than normal. So wear one for (some) sporty riding and not for normal. I think you could reasonably put a big ascent on a tandem as slow/normal, and subsequent descent as sporty.

Wet roads are riskier, helmets help keep the rain off...

I regularly ride up to coach Go Ride sessions without my helmet on, put it on when I start (mandatory). If I'm riding the technical forest trails at Glen Tress I'll wear a helmet (lots of overhanging branches, good chance of a fall), but riding up the (big!) hill to get to the start I won't: walking pace at times and hard work, and I'd prefer to lower the chances of sweat in my eyes.

But I'm not convinced that if you wear one you'll always wear one is necessarily one that carries weight beyond the typically paranoid UK cyclist. As already noted, Dutch riders wear according to context, and in other sports paddlers carry helmets to put on for white water. If Chris Hoy is driving to a racing circuit for his autosport hobby I guess he pops his lid in the back rather than wear it on the way, and so on.

I do know people convinced they'll wear one for any cycling, but I imagine quite a few would eventually start to question whether "cycling, all of it" is a sensible context if they e.g. commuted daily by bike in Groningen.

Pete.
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