This helmet thing.

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
Sleeper Service
Posts: 32
Joined: 1 Nov 2015, 11:01pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Sleeper Service » 8 Dec 2015, 4:56pm

Tonyf33 wrote:"Massively entitled", that's utterly ridiculous, entitled to what, riding a bike, yes I am entitled to do that, aren't you?
I ride safely with due consideration to myself and as importantly everyone else around me no matter what mode of travel they choose so what garb I am wearing doesn't impact that process one iota but please expand what impact my 'entitlement' to ride a bike has on a) the safety of others and b) a group being negatively effected from an enjoyment POV?

You don't have a clue what you're talking about!


Well since what you're doing is throwing your toys out of the pram and then slagging off the people whose club it is and the rules they have chosen as a club, yes - it does come across as massively entitled.

If you want a helmet free club then start one or join one. Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.

Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Bicycler » 8 Dec 2015, 5:10pm

Sleeper Service wrote:If you want a helmet free club then start one or join one. Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.

Hang on, hasn't this situation arisen because the club has chosen to do just that? No-one wants to impose a helmet-free club. No-one. People would like to be able to make their own decision without having helmets imposed upon them because some other people think they are a good idea.

Sleeper Service
Posts: 32
Joined: 1 Nov 2015, 11:01pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Sleeper Service » 8 Dec 2015, 5:29pm

Bicycler wrote:
Sleeper Service wrote:If you want a helmet free club then start one or join one. Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.

Hang on, hasn't this situation arisen because the club has chosen to do just that? No-one wants to impose a helmet-free club. No-one. People would like to be able to make their own decision without having helmets imposed upon them because some other people think they are a good idea.


The point is that no one is under any compulsion to join this or any other club. You are free to ride alone, with friends, or with any club that does not insist on a helmet being worn.

However, if you join this particular club - or any other one that has a helmet only policy - then you accept their rules. If you don't agree with them then you can always canvass members to get the rules changed. However, until you've done so then you abide by the current rules if you want to be in the club.

Mike Sales
Posts: 3345
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Mike Sales » 8 Dec 2015, 5:35pm

Sleeper Service wrote: Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.


You have the principle right but falter on the application. It is odd you cannot see that.

User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 7680
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Cully
Contact:

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby al_yrpal » 8 Dec 2015, 5:42pm

nez dans le guidon wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:I remember queuing up in an over the
counter Sports Shop in my yoof. There was a woman serving. I asked to see a man. She turned round and hollered out the back. "Oi Fred, theres a bloke out here wants to buy a Jock Strap!" :oops:

Al

What had you gone to buy?


A jock strap! :D

The queue enjoyed tbat moment immensley, soo embarrasing for an 18 year old in the prudish early sixties.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. CTC gone but not forgotten!

User avatar
Vantage
Posts: 2676
Joined: 24 Jan 2012, 1:44pm
Location: somewhere in Bolton
Contact:

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Vantage » 8 Dec 2015, 6:08pm

Sleeper Service wrote:
The point is that no one is under any compulsion to join this or any other club. You are free to ride alone, with friends, or with any club that does not insist on a helmet being worn.


The point is that many people who do not enjoy cycling alone may seek out a club to make friends and in areas where cycling club choice is limited (such as the one in question) a helmet rule can and will deter those people who do not agree with the notion that a helmet can save lives.
It's like being forced to ride a certain type of bike in certain colours and in certain clothing or miss out on cycling altogether. In other words, plain stupid.
Bill


“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.

nez
Posts: 1607
Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby nez » 8 Dec 2015, 6:10pm

al_yrpal wrote:
nez dans le guidon wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:I remember queuing up in an over the
counter Sports Shop in my yoof. There was a woman serving. I asked to see a man. She turned round and hollered out the back. "Oi Fred, theres a bloke out here wants to buy a Jock Strap!" :oops:

Al

What had you gone to buy?


A jock strap! :D

The queue enjoyed tbat moment immensley, soo embarrasing for an 18 year old in the prudish early sixties.

Al

Ah. I thought she was pulling your leg.

User avatar
bigjim
Posts: 3109
Joined: 2 Feb 2008, 5:08pm
Location: Manchester

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby bigjim » 8 Dec 2015, 6:28pm

Vantage wrote:
Sleeper Service wrote:
The point is that no one is under any compulsion to join this or any other club. You are free to ride alone, with friends, or with any club that does not insist on a helmet being worn.


The point is that many people who do not enjoy cycling alone may seek out a club to make friends and in areas where cycling club choice is limited (such as the one in question) a helmet rule can and will deter those people who do not agree with the notion that a helmet can save lives.
It's like being forced to ride a certain type of bike in certain colours and in certain clothing or miss out on cycling altogether. In other words, plain stupid.

At last! Somebody got my point. Took a while to get there. Thankyou. :)
Nothing left to prove.

Tonyf33
Posts: 3926
Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Tonyf33 » 8 Dec 2015, 7:15pm

Sleeper Service wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:"Massively entitled", that's utterly ridiculous, entitled to what, riding a bike, yes I am entitled to do that, aren't you?
I ride safely with due consideration to myself and as importantly everyone else around me no matter what mode of travel they choose so what garb I am wearing doesn't impact that process one iota but please expand what impact my 'entitlement' to ride a bike has on a) the safety of others and b) a group being negatively effected from an enjoyment POV?

You don't have a clue what you're talking about!


Well since what you're doing is throwing your toys out of the pram and then slagging off the people whose club it is and the rules they have chosen as a club, yes - it does come across as massively entitled.

If you want a helmet free club then start one or join one. Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.

Soooooo, you couldn't answer my questions then? Which leads you to trying to infer I'm slagging someone off, it was YOU introducing your well aimed snipe, AKA 'pet theory' which was directed at myself who started throwing the toys out the pram! If you can't see that what you're saying (about non helmet wearing cyclists) is not only fallacious and what you said was inflammatory (slagging off if you will) then you have more than non helmet wearing bicyclists to concern yourself with...

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17201
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Vorpal » 8 Dec 2015, 7:44pm

I know that many of us wax passionate about helmets, but please argue nicely.

Phrases such as 'massively entitled' and 'you don't have a clue' don't contribute constructively to the discussion.

This thread has now been moved to the ghetto.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 13745
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby mjr » 8 Dec 2015, 7:50pm

nez dans le guidon wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:A jock strap! :D

The queue enjoyed tbat moment immensley, soo embarrasing for an 18 year old in the prudish early sixties.

Al

Ah. I thought she was pulling your leg.

Third leg?

Sorry IGMC
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

D363
Posts: 75
Joined: 23 Aug 2014, 3:03pm
Location: Sheffield

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby D363 » 8 Dec 2015, 10:37pm

mjr wrote:
nez dans le guidon wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:A jock strap! :D

The queue enjoyed tbat moment immensley, soo embarrasing for an 18 year old in the prudish early sixties.

Al

Ah. I thought she was pulling your leg.

Third leg?

Sorry IGMC


Or helmet.

Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Bicycler » 8 Dec 2015, 11:03pm

Sleeper Service wrote:The point is that no one is under any compulsion to join this or any other club. You are free to ride alone, with friends, or with any club that does not insist on a helmet being worn.

However, if you join this particular club - or any other one that has a helmet only policy - then you accept their rules. If you don't agree with them then you can always canvass members to get the rules changed. However, until you've done so then you abide by the current rules if you want to be in the club.

Unless I've missed something nobody in this discussion has joined the club or disobeyed their rules. The OP was put off joining the club's rides due to this policy and initiated a discussion on the topic. It seems to me that any policy which might discourage potential members is a valid topic of discussion for this cycle forum and the cycle community as a whole. When I've run clubs (not cycling ones) I've been very keen to listen to the views of new and potential members and indeed those of others in the community at large. If aware of this discussion the club in question can choose to consider Jim's (and others') points or they are free to ignore them. What no-one has a right to expect is that their policies be exempt from reasoned criticism.
Last edited by Bicycler on 9 Dec 2015, 10:47am, edited 2 times in total.

TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby TonyR » 8 Dec 2015, 11:44pm

How does a club actually enforce the helmet rule? I agree that within legal boundaries a club can have whatever membership rules it likes. But also they cannot stop you riding with them along public roads - unless they can put the hammer down and lose you. So you could just turn up and ride as is your right.

drossall
Posts: 4572
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby drossall » 8 Dec 2015, 11:51pm

Well yes, but who would want to do that?