Tonyf33 wrote:"Massively entitled", that's utterly ridiculous, entitled to what, riding a bike, yes I am entitled to do that, aren't you? I ride safely with due consideration to myself and as importantly everyone else around me no matter what mode of travel they choose so what garb I am wearing doesn't impact that process one iota but please expand what impact my 'entitlement' to ride a bike has on a) the safety of others and b) a group being negatively effected from an enjoyment POV?
You don't have a clue what you're talking about!
Well since what you're doing is throwing your toys out of the pram and then slagging off the people whose club it is and the rules they have chosen as a club, yes - it does come across as massively entitled.
If you want a helmet free club then start one or join one. Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.
Sleeper Service wrote:If you want a helmet free club then start one or join one. Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.
Hang on, hasn't this situation arisen because the club has chosen to do just that? No-one wants to impose a helmet-free club. No-one. People would like to be able to make their own decision without having helmets imposed upon them because some other people think they are a good idea.
Sleeper Service wrote:If you want a helmet free club then start one or join one. Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.
Hang on, hasn't this situation arisen because the club has chosen to do just that? No-one wants to impose a helmet-free club. No-one. People would like to be able to make their own decision without having helmets imposed upon them because some other people think they are a good idea.
The point is that no one is under any compulsion to join this or any other club. You are free to ride alone, with friends, or with any club that does not insist on a helmet being worn.
However, if you join this particular club - or any other one that has a helmet only policy - then you accept their rules. If you don't agree with them then you can always canvass members to get the rules changed. However, until you've done so then you abide by the current rules if you want to be in the club.
al_yrpal wrote:I remember queuing up in an over the counter Sports Shop in my yoof. There was a woman serving. I asked to see a man. She turned round and hollered out the back. "Oi Fred, theres a bloke out here wants to buy a Jock Strap!"
Al
What had you gone to buy?
A jock strap!
The queue enjoyed tbat moment immensley, soo embarrasing for an 18 year old in the prudish early sixties.
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Sleeper Service wrote: The point is that no one is under any compulsion to join this or any other club. You are free to ride alone, with friends, or with any club that does not insist on a helmet being worn.
The point is that many people who do not enjoy cycling alone may seek out a club to make friends and in areas where cycling club choice is limited (such as the one in question) a helmet rule can and will deter those people who do not agree with the notion that a helmet can save lives. It's like being forced to ride a certain type of bike in certain colours and in certain clothing or miss out on cycling altogether. In other words, plain stupid.
Bill
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
al_yrpal wrote:I remember queuing up in an over the counter Sports Shop in my yoof. There was a woman serving. I asked to see a man. She turned round and hollered out the back. "Oi Fred, theres a bloke out here wants to buy a Jock Strap!"
Al
What had you gone to buy?
A jock strap!
The queue enjoyed tbat moment immensley, soo embarrasing for an 18 year old in the prudish early sixties.
Sleeper Service wrote: The point is that no one is under any compulsion to join this or any other club. You are free to ride alone, with friends, or with any club that does not insist on a helmet being worn.
The point is that many people who do not enjoy cycling alone may seek out a club to make friends and in areas where cycling club choice is limited (such as the one in question) a helmet rule can and will deter those people who do not agree with the notion that a helmet can save lives. It's like being forced to ride a certain type of bike in certain colours and in certain clothing or miss out on cycling altogether. In other words, plain stupid.
At last! Somebody got my point. Took a while to get there. Thankyou.
Tonyf33 wrote:"Massively entitled", that's utterly ridiculous, entitled to what, riding a bike, yes I am entitled to do that, aren't you? I ride safely with due consideration to myself and as importantly everyone else around me no matter what mode of travel they choose so what garb I am wearing doesn't impact that process one iota but please expand what impact my 'entitlement' to ride a bike has on a) the safety of others and b) a group being negatively effected from an enjoyment POV?
You don't have a clue what you're talking about!
Well since what you're doing is throwing your toys out of the pram and then slagging off the people whose club it is and the rules they have chosen as a club, yes - it does come across as massively entitled.
If you want a helmet free club then start one or join one. Don't impose your rules and beliefs on people who don't share them.
Soooooo, you couldn't answer my questions then? Which leads you to trying to infer I'm slagging someone off, it was YOU introducing your well aimed snipe, AKA 'pet theory' which was directed at myself who started throwing the toys out the pram! If you can't see that what you're saying (about non helmet wearing cyclists) is not only fallacious and what you said was inflammatory (slagging off if you will) then you have more than non helmet wearing bicyclists to concern yourself with...
The queue enjoyed tbat moment immensley, soo embarrasing for an 18 year old in the prudish early sixties.
Al
Ah. I thought she was pulling your leg.[emoji15]
Third leg?
Sorry IGMC
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Sleeper Service wrote:The point is that no one is under any compulsion to join this or any other club. You are free to ride alone, with friends, or with any club that does not insist on a helmet being worn.
However, if you join this particular club - or any other one that has a helmet only policy - then you accept their rules. If you don't agree with them then you can always canvass members to get the rules changed. However, until you've done so then you abide by the current rules if you want to be in the club.
Unless I've missed something nobody in this discussion has joined the club or disobeyed their rules. The OP was put off joining the club's rides due to this policy and initiated a discussion on the topic. It seems to me that any policy which might discourage potential members is a valid topic of discussion for this cycle forum and the cycle community as a whole. When I've run clubs (not cycling ones) I've been very keen to listen to the views of new and potential members and indeed those of others in the community at large. If aware of this discussion the club in question can choose to consider Jim's (and others') points or they are free to ignore them. What no-one has a right to expect is that their policies be exempt from reasoned criticism.
Last edited by Bicycler on 9 Dec 2015, 10:47am, edited 2 times in total.
How does a club actually enforce the helmet rule? I agree that within legal boundaries a club can have whatever membership rules it likes. But also they cannot stop you riding with them along public roads - unless they can put the hammer down and lose you. So you could just turn up and ride as is your right.
