This helmet thing.

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Bicycler » 9 Dec 2015, 12:23am

Agreed, that is getting silly.

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17178
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Dec 2015, 8:27am

As with any club the views of those who might consider joining, but don't, are of great significance.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17909
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Vorpal » 9 Dec 2015, 8:39am

drossall wrote:Well yes, but who would want to do that?

If I wanted to join a club, and the only one in the area had a helmet rule, I might well try that, although I suspect I would probably just not go. Or maybe go a bit further afar to find one that didn't have a helmet rule.

Also, if the club of which I was a long term member imposed a helmet rule, say by the vote of members (unlikely, but not impossible) I would certainly turn up for rides without one; as many rides as I could reasonably make it to.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Bicycler » 9 Dec 2015, 10:53am

It's a bit different if you're an existing member of a club where you know (and presumably get on with) some of the members. It would be a courageous move with a group of strangers who would in all likelihood close ranks.

In all the usual helmet thread hoo-ha we missed giving the best advice to the OP which is to contact the club and to tactfully explain how he feels. Being new, young and sports cycling influenced, the people running the club might not have been exposed to the idea that it might exclude potential members. We also started from the position that it was a deliberate and informed decision whereas it might have been made on an assumption of problems such as insurance requirements or litigation which don't stand up when examined closely. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby TonyR » 9 Dec 2015, 3:27pm

I'd just be inclined to turn up for the first ride sans helmet. If anyone says anything about it apologise profusely, say you didn't realise it was required etc. Its unlikely most clubs would turn you away and then on the ride you can chat, get friendly, ask if its essential as you don't have one and will need to save up to get one if it is. Pretty sure that at the end you'd find yourself with new friends and no need to wear a helmet. I've gone on a number of mandatory helmet events without a helmet and no-one has been bothered or said anything.

Tonyf33
Posts: 3926
Joined: 17 Nov 2007, 3:31pm
Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Tonyf33 » 9 Dec 2015, 4:53pm

TonyR wrote:I'd just be inclined to turn up for the first ride sans helmet. If anyone says anything about it apologise profusely, say you didn't realise it was required etc. Its unlikely most clubs would turn you away and then on the ride you can chat, get friendly, ask if its essential as you don't have one and will need to save up to get one if it is. Pretty sure that at the end you'd find yourself with new friends and no need to wear a helmet. I've gone on a number of mandatory helmet events without a helmet and no-one has been bothered or said anything.

Turning up on a machine worth anything north of a grand and saying that might not wash..lol :lol:

TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby TonyR » 9 Dec 2015, 4:55pm

Tonyf33 wrote:
TonyR wrote:I'd just be inclined to turn up for the first ride sans helmet. If anyone says anything about it apologise profusely, say you didn't realise it was required etc. Its unlikely most clubs would turn you away and then on the ride you can chat, get friendly, ask if its essential as you don't have one and will need to save up to get one if it is. Pretty sure that at the end you'd find yourself with new friends and no need to wear a helmet. I've gone on a number of mandatory helmet events without a helmet and no-one has been bothered or said anything.

Turning up on a machine worth anything north of a grand and saying that might not wash..lol :lol:


After spending north of a grand they probably don't have any money :shock:

rmurphy195
Posts: 1582
Joined: 20 May 2011, 11:23am
Location: South Birmingham

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby rmurphy195 » 10 Dec 2015, 11:06am

Vorpal wrote:
drossall wrote:Well yes, but who would want to do that?

If I wanted to join a club, and the only one in the area had a helmet rule, I might well try that, although I suspect I would probably just not go. Or maybe go a bit further afar to find one that didn't have a helmet rule.

Also, if the club of which I was a long term member imposed a helmet rule, say by the vote of members (unlikely, but not impossible) I would certainly turn up for rides without one; as many rides as I could reasonably make it to.


And if the club had younger members to which they were trying to set an example - are you going to undermine that?
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair
""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !

TonyR
Posts: 5390
Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby TonyR » 10 Dec 2015, 11:31am

rmurphy195 wrote:And if the club had younger members to which they were trying to set an example - are you going to undermine that?


What example would that be?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14993
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby mjr » 10 Dec 2015, 11:43am

rmurphy195 wrote:And if the club had younger members to which they were trying to set an example - are you going to undermine that?

If they're setting a bad example to younger members, why wouldn't you?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 17909
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Vorpal » 10 Dec 2015, 11:54am

rmurphy195 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
drossall wrote:Well yes, but who would want to do that?

If I wanted to join a club, and the only one in the area had a helmet rule, I might well try that, although I suspect I would probably just not go. Or maybe go a bit further afar to find one that didn't have a helmet rule.

Also, if the club of which I was a long term member imposed a helmet rule, say by the vote of members (unlikely, but not impossible) I would certainly turn up for rides without one; as many rides as I could reasonably make it to.


And if the club had younger members to which they were trying to set an example - are you going to undermine that?

Like my children?

Who are allowed to make their own decisions about it. They both have helmets, and sometimes wear them. Mini V told me once earlier this year that is was 'dangerous to ride without a helmet'. I made her take a couple of trips without one, just to prove it wasn't dangerous, but other than that, she mostly wears one. Littlest wears one when he rides his own bike, but not on the back of the tandem, which I think means he has probably done a pretty good job of assessing risks and weighing them against personal convenience. He hasn't been cycling independently for very long (less than a year), and his choice reflects the greater likelihood of a spill from his own bike than the tandem. He also wears gloves on his own bike, and sometimes on the tandem. That's his choice, as well.

If you mean someone else's children, I don't think that it's wrong to challenge unthinking adherence to a belief system. If they were to ask why I didn't wear one, I'd tell them.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Bicycler » 10 Dec 2015, 12:13pm

Vorpal wrote:If you mean someone else's children, I don't think that it's wrong to challenge unthinking adherence to a belief system. If they were to ask why I didn't wear one, I'd tell them.

+1,000,000,000 (an American billion in Vorpal's honour :) )
There is no more important thing to learn than reasoned decision making. As a nation of parents we are too fond of "because I say so". We don't protect children by presenting them with a singular view of the world.

User avatar
pjclinch
Posts: 3872
Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby pjclinch » 10 Dec 2015, 1:57pm

I teach Bikeability at a Perth & Kinross school. P&K insist on any cycling in a school context being in a crash helmet, so all the kids wear crash helmets. I don't have to, and I don't. I always get asked why I'm not wearing one, and since part of the curriculum is outlining both pros and cons to underpin an informed choice, I tell them.

In a classroom session on it I show them harrowing videos of unhelmeted youngsters and what usually happens to them if they fall off...



and I ask them questions like "how many of you have had an I banged my head! sticker from the school nurse they collected playing in the playground, and it's usually most of them, and I point out the last time I hit my head falling off a bike was before they were born, and though I was wearing a helmet I took it on the chin so do they think it helped? And I point out the current Sustrans helmet policy ("We support the individual’s freedom of choice whether to wear a cycle helmet or not, and for parents to make that choice for their children. Helmet wearing isn't a legal requirement in the UK, and the evidence is inconclusive as to whether it makes cycling safer."). And so on, and they actually apply a lot more intelligent thought to these things than most adults.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

nez
Posts: 1768
Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby nez » 10 Dec 2015, 2:03pm

That's a great film. My eldest learned to.ride on a hard sand beach inFrance approaching 30years ago. Going was fine but he turned like a Lancaster bomber... Veeeery sloooowly

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 48194
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: This helmet thing.

Postby Mick F » 10 Dec 2015, 2:22pm

Great movie! :D
I've found it on YouTube and will send the link to Daughter1. Her son (our grandson of course) is having a great deal of difficulty learning to ride. He's a stubborn little lad of six in January. It doesn't help that his father never ever ever learned to ride a bike. He never wanted to and saw no reason to, so that attitude has percolated down to his son. He has enough difficulty just turning pedals, let alone steering. Stabilisers and pushing him along are the only way at the moment.

I'm trying to get him interested, but it's an uphill struggle. If he can see a two year old girl conquering two wheels, it MAY work. My fingers are crossed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkPYPeR ... CG3moU3TAw

PS:
Good post too Pete! - regarding teaching children to think for themselves.
Mick F. Cornwall