Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compulsory

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coshgirl
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Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compulsory

Postby coshgirl » 8 Dec 2015, 11:47am

Urgh, just seen this on twitter. Bolton council have backed a motion from keen 'cyclist' and Breightmet councillor John Byrne to ask the UK government to bring in new laws ' to make it a legal requirement to wear helmets at all times when riding a bike.' He laughably cites Australia and New Zealand as an example. What a helmet! to make it a legal requirement to wear helmets at all times when riding a bike. Hope the gov ignores him... http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/news/ ... ompulsory/

greyingbeard
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby greyingbeard » 8 Dec 2015, 1:36pm

what a twit. Plenty of twits on local councils. Its so easy to pass another law and remove another freedom of the individual.

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Mick F
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby Mick F » 8 Dec 2015, 3:21pm

I reckon everyone should wear a helmet.
Not just cyclists.

Perhaps we should pass a law.
Mick F. Cornwall

coshgirl
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby coshgirl » 8 Dec 2015, 4:50pm

I've emailed John Byrne. Might be worth a few more of us doing it, just so he knows that most people who ride bikes do not support his crackpot views... john.byrne@bolton.gov.uk

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mjr
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby mjr » 8 Dec 2015, 5:14pm

It'll be interesting to see what response it gets (if any). The last time I saw it, it was rejected because "Regular Department for Transport surveys have shown that the wearing rate for children has remained at around 18% i.e. the majority of children cyclists do not wear helmets. Compulsory laws would therefore cause significant enforcement difficulties and without greater public acceptance could have a negative effect on levels of cycling with direct disadvantages and costs in terms of health. For these reasons, the Government has no plans to introduce compulsory cycle helmet laws."

So in short, if you want to preserve freedom of choice, don't wear them and discourage others from wearing them!
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby bikepacker » 8 Dec 2015, 5:59pm

coshgirl wrote:I've emailed John Byrne. Might be worth a few more of us doing it, just so he knows that most people who ride bikes do not support his crackpot views... john.byrne@bolton.gov.uk


Email sent.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby Mike Sales » 8 Dec 2015, 6:36pm

Isn't it always the helmeteers who want to impose their views on others?

cliffyboy1962
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby cliffyboy1962 » 8 Dec 2015, 7:00pm

I feel strange about this one. I have tried really hard to convince my children to wear their helmets whenever they go outside of our little cul-de-sac because I felt it was the responsible thing to do. I always wear a helmet when using the road. I therefore think helmets are a sensible precaution for all cyclists.

I suppose, therefore, that I wouldn't object to a law making it mandatory. However, I do understand the loss of freedom of choice, argument and I am hoping that all the objections so far raised, are for that reason and not because people believe helmets are a bad idea.

avalonian
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby avalonian » 8 Dec 2015, 7:00pm

E Mail sent

cliffyboy1962
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby cliffyboy1962 » 8 Dec 2015, 7:03pm

mjr wrote:So in short, if you want to preserve freedom of choice, don't wear them and discourage others from wearing them!


This comment seems to fly in the face of all I have been led to believe about Cycling helmets and their use. Are you being serious or is your comment "tongue in cheek" ?

Mike Sales
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby Mike Sales » 8 Dec 2015, 7:07pm

cliffyboy1962 wrote: I do understand the loss of freedom of choice, argument and I am hoping that all the objections so far raised, are for that reason and not because people believe helmets are a bad idea.


Fraid not. I don't know why you would hope that, but some of us here do think that helmets are a bad idea and don't work.
To save us much repetition, you could read previous discussions in this subsection.

I an afraid you have been led to believe some falsehoods.

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mjr
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby mjr » 8 Dec 2015, 7:48pm

cliffyboy1962 wrote:
mjr wrote:So in short, if you want to preserve freedom of choice, don't wear them and discourage others from wearing them!


This comment seems to fly in the face of all I have been led to believe about Cycling helmets and their use. Are you being serious or is your comment "tongue in cheek" ?

A serious point, made in a "tongue in cheek" style. How have you been led to believe crash helmets are useful? Maybe look at old discussions on here, look at the numbers (beware the old 88% claim that even its authors no longer support), consider why our streets aren't littered with the bodies of the unhelmetted majority of cyclists, consider why some countries have even lower helmet-wearing figures without significantly higher injury rates and so on ;)

Given that some of the most dangerous cycling I've seen on open roads (riding too close behind, riding three abreast, overtaking on the left, surrounding unwilling others and so on) has been by helmet-wearers, I suspect there are stronger arguments for banning helmets and similar body armour from open roads completely (it's up to closed-road events what they do) than for making any of it compulsory... but why bother? Let's ignore these distractions from addressing the bigger killers on our roads, such as bad motorists and inhuman road layouts.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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cliffyboy1962
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby cliffyboy1962 » 8 Dec 2015, 8:01pm

mjr wrote:
cliffyboy1962 wrote:
mjr wrote:So in short, if you want to preserve freedom of choice, don't wear them and discourage others from wearing them!


This comment seems to fly in the face of all I have been led to believe about Cycling helmets and their use. Are you being serious or is your comment "tongue in cheek" ?

A serious point, made in a "tongue in cheek" style. How have you been led to believe crash helmets are useful? Maybe look at old discussions on here, look at the numbers (beware the old 88% claim that even its authors no longer support), consider why our streets aren't littered with the bodies of the unhelmetted majority of cyclists, consider why some countries have even lower helmet-wearing figures without significantly higher injury rates and so on ;)

Given that some of the most dangerous cycling I've seen on open roads (riding too close behind, riding three abreast, overtaking on the left, surrounding unwilling others and so on) has been by helmet-wearers, I suspect there are stronger arguments for banning helmets and similar body armour from open roads completely (it's up to closed-road events what they do) than for making any of it compulsory... but why bother? Let's ignore these distractions from addressing the bigger killers on our roads, such as bad motorists and inhuman road layouts.


As you have suggested, I have taken a look at the helmet/non-helmet argument here on CTC and now realise, that this is a big contentious issue amongst the community and will do much more research before commenting again.

In my brief foray into the lions den of helmet wearing though, I didn't find anything (Yet !) to suggest that wearing a helmet can in anyway, detract from a cyclists safety. It would seem that the non-helmet wearing fraternity are suggesting that it is far better to ride defensively and avoid accidents than to wear a helmet and assume your safety is guaranteed by this.

Well, for me, unless I discover otherwise, I shall continue to ride extremely defensively and wear a helmet hopefully covering all angles.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby [XAP]Bob » 8 Dec 2015, 8:08pm

When the law was introduce in NZ it was associated with a 14% increase in per mile risk of injury.
When passing distances were investigated in the UK it was found that a helmeted cyclist had the closest passes.

A blonde wig is a better bet for avoiding a collision in the first place.
Also there is a risk of neck injury being caused by a cycle helmet, since despite the evidence around rotational brain injuries being the ones that are actually damaging (ignoring penetration at the moment) there is no test for cycle helmets with regulates their behaviour in this way.

Several children have died as a direct result of wearing cycle helmets - usually having cycled to a park and then managed to hang themselves on play equipment...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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kwackers
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Re: Bolton Council asks UK government to make helmets compul

Postby kwackers » 8 Dec 2015, 8:11pm

cliffyboy1962 wrote:I didn't find anything (Yet !) to suggest that wearing a helmet can in anyway, detract from a cyclists safety

A larger, heavier head is more likely to hit the floor. Because it's larger it has more torque transferred, torque implies spin and spin is the major cause of brain damage.

There are a number of assumptions in that statement and fundamentally you need to have the 'right sort' of accident. But rotational injuries are very real and there's a lot of research into them. Bicycle helmets aren't tested for rotation, motorcycle helmets are but I suspect that's because a soft polystyrene helmet wouldn't look very favourable whereas a hard, smooth motorcycle shell is more likely to slide and therefore gives good results.

I merely mention it to give you something that can provide something to suggest they can detract from a cyclists safety. ;)