Glad I had a lid.

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby Cunobelin » 30 Jan 2016, 1:00pm

AlanW wrote:
Mick F wrote:Therefore, why don't I wear a helmet?
Because it's uncomfortable. If it was, I may wear it and not take it off. :lol:


Not wishing to join in on the should a helmet be worn or not debate, just commenting on this statement. But have you thought that maybe all helmets are different and that one shape doesn't fit everyone? Even the same make helmets but in different styles will fit differently.

Its a bit like saying that my Selle Italia (or want ever brand) saddle is uncomfortable so I not going to have a saddle at all, I'll stand up all the time.


Not really... the truer comparison is saying that the Selle Italia is uncomfortable, and on those grounds insisting that everyone uses a recumbent

There is no rational comparison for the helmet debate if you are going to exclude the majority of options

If someone does not feel comfortable wearing a helmet then they are making a choice on their own experience......

IT always amuses me when the pro-helmeteers want their choice to be recognised as valid, yet refuse to accept the freedom of others to choose

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Cunobelin
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby Cunobelin » 30 Jan 2016, 1:09pm

Is there really any real relevance to the average day to day cyclist whether professional riders and racers wear helmets or not?

If we extrapolate this logically:

If racing cyclists wearing helmets is "evidence" or promotes their use in leisure and commuter cycling, does the fact that racing motorists wear helmets become evidence or promote their use in day to day driving?

TonyR
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby TonyR » 30 Jan 2016, 1:28pm

Cunobelin wrote:Is there really any real relevance to the average day to day cyclist whether professional riders and racers wear helmets or not?

If we extrapolate this logically:

If racing cyclists wearing helmets is "evidence" or promotes their use in leisure and commuter cycling, does the fact that racing motorists wear helmets become evidence or promote their use in day to day driving?


It does because you only need to see cyclists out in the team colours to realise that helmets for many are part of the uniform. And that adds to the image that cyclists wear helmets and the wearing rates that start to normalise helmets as something cyclists wear. Its not the same for motorists as most are not in Nomex suits and racing helmets in open cockpit cars.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby Cunobelin » 30 Jan 2016, 1:37pm

TonyR wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:Is there really any real relevance to the average day to day cyclist whether professional riders and racers wear helmets or not?

If we extrapolate this logically:

If racing cyclists wearing helmets is "evidence" or promotes their use in leisure and commuter cycling, does the fact that racing motorists wear helmets become evidence or promote their use in day to day driving?


It does because you only need to see cyclists out in the team colours to realise that helmets for many are part of the uniform. And that adds to the image that cyclists wear helmets and the wearing rates that start to normalise helmets as something cyclists wear. Its not the same for motorists as most are not in Nomex suits and racing helmets in open cockpit cars.


Still no relevance to the person nipping round to the shop on a Brompton

TonyR
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby TonyR » 30 Jan 2016, 3:18pm

Cunobelin wrote:
It does because you only need to see cyclists out in the team colours to realise that helmets for many are part of the uniform. And that adds to the image that cyclists wear helmets and the wearing rates that start to normalise helmets as something cyclists wear. Its not the same for motorists as most are not in Nomex suits and racing helmets in open cockpit cars.


Still no relevance to the person nipping round to the shop on a Brompton


It does because of the tendency in most people to want to conform. Have you noticed how many cars drive around these days with headlights on if its even a tiny bit grey? Its not a legal requirement but they do it because everyone else does. Likewise with helmets. If you see everyone who looks like a "serious cyclist" cycling round with a helmet your likely to think you should wear one too - even for the Brompton to the shops. Its herd instinct.
Last edited by Vorpal on 30 Jan 2016, 3:49pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PhilWhitehurst
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby PhilWhitehurst » 30 Jan 2016, 3:39pm

When it is icy is when I do wear a helmet. Mind you two years ago my front wheel went on black ice and my chin hit the road. The helmet didn't touch the tarmac :D When it is not icy I wear a cap, which is a much nicer bit of headwear on a bike.

broadway
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby broadway » 30 Jan 2016, 5:22pm

TonyR wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
It does because you only need to see cyclists out in the team colours to realise that helmets for many are part of the uniform. And that adds to the image that cyclists wear helmets and the wearing rates that start to normalise helmets as something cyclists wear. Its not the same for motorists as most are not in Nomex suits and racing helmets in open cockpit cars.


Still no relevance to the person nipping round to the shop on a Brompton


It does because of the tendency in most people to want to conform. Have you noticed how many cars drive around these days with headlights on if its even a tiny bit grey? Its not a legal requirement but they do it because everyone else does. Likewise with helmets. If you see everyone who looks like a "serious cyclist" cycling round with a helmet your likely to think you should wear one too - even for the Brompton to the shops. Its herd instinct.


Can you explain why I don't see any Brompton riders in team kit?

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pjclinch
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby pjclinch » 30 Jan 2016, 5:31pm

TonyR wrote:IIf you see everyone who looks like a "serious cyclist" cycling round with a helmet your likely to think you should wear one too - even for the Brompton to the shops. Its herd instinct.


I agree with this, not least because my helmet-wearing phase began when I got my first "proper" bike in '89 and I wanted to be a "proper" cyclist. "Proper cyclists" increasingly seemed to be going for helmets at the time, and have been since. Look at advertising in the rags and with a few exceptions (Rapha cap wearers, for example) the firms trying to project Serious Stuff For Serious Cyclist show lids (along with cycle-specific clothing and fancy sport-oriented bikes). Add in that there does seem to be some "common sense" behind wearing one and there you have fertile ground for people rationalising that they ought to get one (and before I gave up on them I had my Brom, and used a lid to go to the shops on it, 'cause I was a Serious/Proper cyclist).

These days I have a semi-official job of Projecting The Right Image as a Bikeability instructor, but a bit like Chris Boardman on his TV slots I choose to show it's okay to ride in normal clothes and no crash helmet. Plenty of my colleagues wouldn't be seen giving a lesson without dayglo, lycra and crash hats though.

Herd instinct works differently in NL, the herds are on sensible bikes in everyday clothes. It's too ingrained (and known to be acceptably safe) to sell them something they don't see any need for as a Lifestyle Choice rationalised as safety. To some extent pointless guff as lifestyle/safety has been sold to us in car form with SUVs/4x4s (back in the 90s, with added bull-bars), but it's still okay to drive a Normal car too.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby Cunobelin » 30 Jan 2016, 6:00pm

broadway wrote:Can you explain why I don't see any Brompton riders in team kit?



I don't need to .... as that is my point

A cycling team wearing team kit is as pathetic a justification as expecting a racing driver to justify a Smart car driver wearing one

Tonyf33
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby Tonyf33 » 30 Jan 2016, 6:06pm

Racing cyclists should be banned from wearing helmets, they clearly suffer from and are at greater risk of the negative effects of helmets and the massive forces involved due to the speeds they ride at their magic hats are not so magic, I'd say quite the opposite! Given the huge increase in crashes that happen in the pro ranks (much more than there ever used to be) I'd say that to be forced to wear them at competition level by the UCI is tantamount to them being culpable to the injuries suffered.

TonyR
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby TonyR » 30 Jan 2016, 7:29pm

broadway wrote:Can you explain why I don't see any Brompton riders in team kit?


But you do!

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Manc33
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby Manc33 » 31 Jan 2016, 2:24am

Along a canal path at -3c I tried to get up a kerb not realizing every atom of its surface was ice, the back wheel slid, I went off to the left and hit my face on a tree and got scratches on my face, I was about 3 feet from falling down a big drop. To this day I don't know if I got KO'd or not but I remember having to sit down on the floor for a few minutes. I carried on the bike ride with a face full of blood and went past numerous people that didn't point it out to me. I needed a mirror more than anything lol. Needless to say I got a helmet pretty sharpish after that and never haven't worn one since.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

TonyR
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby TonyR » 31 Jan 2016, 9:04am

Manc33 wrote:Along a canal path at -3c I tried to get up a kerb not realizing every atom of its surface was ice, the back wheel slid, I went off to the left and hit my face on a tree and got scratches on my face, I was about 3 feet from falling down a big drop. To this day I don't know if I got KO'd or not but I remember having to sit down on the floor for a few minutes. I carried on the bike ride with a face full of blood and went past numerous people that didn't point it out to me. I needed a mirror more than anything lol. Needless to say I got a helmet pretty sharpish after that and never haven't worn one since.


Do you wear your helmet on your face?

broadway
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby broadway » 31 Jan 2016, 9:08am

Cunobelin wrote:
broadway wrote:Can you explain why I don't see any Brompton riders in team kit?



I don't need to .... as that is my point

A cycling team wearing team kit is as pathetic a justification as expecting a racing driver to justify a Smart car driver wearing one


I wasn't asking you :)

Maybe TonyR can come up with a reason?

Bicycler
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Re: Glad I had a lid.

Postby Bicycler » 31 Jan 2016, 9:12am

Manc33 wrote:Along a canal path at -3c I tried to get up a kerb not realizing every atom of its surface was ice, the back wheel slid, I went off to the left and hit my face on a tree and got scratches on my face, I was about 3 feet from falling down a big drop. To this day I don't know if I got KO'd or not but I remember having to sit down on the floor for a few minutes. I carried on the bike ride with a face full of blood and went past numerous people that didn't point it out to me. I needed a mirror more than anything lol. Needless to say I got a helmet pretty sharpish after that and never haven't worn one since.

Fair enough. The problem is that people have the same kind of experience with helmets on and start telling people that it's clear evidence that the helmet protected them from something worse.

PS. Regardless of their effectiveness, standard helmets can't prevent facial injuries. You'd need a full-face mtb helmet.