Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
Tangled Metal
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Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Tangled Metal » 7 Feb 2016, 8:49pm

I was staggered on Saturday. A salesman in a bike shop gave me abuse for saying I didn't wear a helmet.

Background, I was looking at the lights to see which was BS standard and I believe the legal requirement. I saw one Cateye model with it on the front of the packaging. He said all lights were to the BS standard and the best ones for commuting (my need as a second set for back up.and to comply to regulations) were helmet lights. Since he was going away from my brief I said no didn't wear helmets. He'd not been listening to me so I thought that a.good way to take his mind off helmet lights.

This led to him walking away muttering abuse and me walking out without the couple of items I was going to buy.

Truth is I wear a.helmet in winter for a set of unique reasons which make sense to me, on my commute. I wear one off road. On road in summer I don't. My choice and I've never had an issue with not wearing one my whole life. My dad refuses without any issue and my sister too. We may end up in an accident but IMHO helmet wearing is more a personal choice. It is a choice the shop salesman should refrain from judging or expressing a view on IMHO.

One question, should I provide feedback / complain to the shop?

Mike Sales
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Mike Sales » 7 Feb 2016, 9:09pm

Tangled Metal wrote:One question, should I provide feedback / complain to the shop?


Yes, that is very wrong.
When I was in the trade I pulled up a wholesaler I had an account with for promoting helmets, to some effect.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 7 Feb 2016, 10:20pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bicycler
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Bicycler » 7 Feb 2016, 9:37pm

Agreed. Also, link to a reputable (and preferably brief) source which discusses the debate. Whilst there are people who are intolerantly pro-helmet, there are a greater number who simply aren't aware that there's a genuine debate and, thus, a genuine matter of informed personal choice.

BTW, he's definitely wrong about BS approval. If it isn't marked as such, it isn't. The regulations are vehicle lighting regulations. Amongst other things, they set out where the lamps may be placed upon the vehicle. A light mounted on you cannot fulfil the legal requirements for bicycle lighting, regardless of whether it is an approved lamp or not.

TonyR
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby TonyR » 7 Feb 2016, 11:04pm

Any salesman with an ounce of ability would have tried to sell you a helmet "because you'll need one to mount the light on". :wink:

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Mick F
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Mick F » 8 Feb 2016, 7:08am

Tangled Metal wrote:One question, should I provide feedback / complain to the shop?
Oh yes!
Write a letter. Don't bother with a review or a "contact us" form. Write a letter.

Also, hemet lights are probably legal for off-road, but IMHO they are illegal on public roads.

Why?
Because it's illegal to shine a white light to the rear .......... unless you are reversing.
Just imagine riding along with your nice new bright helmet light, and you turn your head to look behind and shine it straight into the face of a driver or cyclist behind you. :shock:
Mick F. Cornwall

Psamathe
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Psamathe » 8 Feb 2016, 9:18am

I have found in one or two bike shops (parts of larger chains) that some individuals can get rather "upset" when you don't do things the way they want you to. When I 1st returned to cycling, having done a few hundred miles on a rubbish bike to check I enjoyed it, when I went to buy a decent bike, spending £££££s, I then got grief from the salesman for not spending even more getting clipless shoes/pedals/etc. as they were "so important". I didn't walk away as I'd travelled miles to get the specific bike, specific size. But the really hard sell/agro because I would not do things the way he thought I should was at best inappropriate.

Happened elsewhere, same chain but different branch when shopping for a specific pair of padded shorts. Salesman had a different opinion about padded shorts and thought I should have been "after a different pair".

I think, certainly in my experiences, it comes down to the personality of the individual salesman. Were I the shop owner/manager I would appreciate being told what was going on so I could put things right. However, if I were the shop owner/manager I should already be well aware as to what was happening just by observation of how sales people were selling, normal keeping an eye on things - so to me it demonstrates a weak owner/manager as well.

Ian

Steady rider
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Steady rider » 8 Feb 2016, 9:31am

Some evidence shows neck injuries to increase with helmet use, would the shop salesman be at risk of being sued, if promoting without due warning, if the person had a neck injury?
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1013.html

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby [XAP]Bob » 8 Feb 2016, 9:31am

Two things I'd complain about.

The abuse for personal choice of clothing on a bike.

The lies about the BS compliance of their lights and advice regarding on road lighting which contradicts the law.
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axel_knutt
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby axel_knutt » 8 Feb 2016, 10:59am

Bicycler wrote:BTW, he's definitely wrong about BS approval. If it isn't marked as such, it isn't.


Yup. Paragraph 11.1(c) of BS6102/3 says that the BS number must be "durably marked" on the lamp, so if it isn't marked it fails the spec simply by virtue of not being marked.
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Vorpal
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Vorpal » 8 Feb 2016, 11:28am

Mick F wrote:Also, hemet lights are probably legal for off-road, but IMHO they are illegal on public roads.

Why?
Because it's illegal to shine a white light to the rear .......... unless you are reversing.

It's only illegal if they are on your vehicle (bicycle).

It seems to me that you've said something about this a time or two before ;)
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reohn2
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby reohn2 » 8 Feb 2016, 12:23pm

Tangled Metal wrote:..........This led to him walking away muttering abuse and me walking out without the couple of items I was going to buy.....


At that point I would have asked to see the manager and demanded an apology for the sales assistant's rudeness.
I would have also left the manager in no doubt about just how much damage the assistant was capable of doing for their sales,then made a point of leaving with buying anything.
Last edited by reohn2 on 8 Feb 2016, 3:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TonyR
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby TonyR » 8 Feb 2016, 2:10pm

Mick F wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:One question, should I provide feedback / complain to the shop?
Oh yes!
Write a letter. Don't bother with a review or a "contact us" form. Write a letter.

Also, hemet lights are probably legal for off-road, but IMHO they are illegal on public roads.

Why?
Because it's illegal to shine a white light to the rear .......... unless you are reversing.
Just imagine riding along with your nice new bright helmet light, and you turn your head to look behind and shine it straight into the face of a driver or cyclist behind you. :shock:


Don't think that's right. As long as your bike has the legal lights and reflectors on it, there is no constraint as to what you wear on your person or other supplementary lights you might have on your bike. Yes you might turn round but then so might a pedestrian with a torch.

Manc33
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Manc33 » 8 Feb 2016, 3:05pm

I can't grasp why people are still spending whatever it is like £50-£70 on a "Cateye" front light from Halford's, if you can get stuff like the "Cree x2 Solarstorm" off eBay for under £20 and it is like having a portable sun on your handlebars. That light is so good it is good enough for pitch black trails. It literally lights up the road for 100 Meters. If that's not enough you can always have 2 on your bars, its still cheaper.
Last edited by Manc33 on 8 Feb 2016, 3:07pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bicycler
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Bicycler » 8 Feb 2016, 3:05pm

It's very clear that the law refers only to lights fitted to vehicles, so there are no offences committed by using a helmet light. It is just about foreseeable that a very bright light affixed to a helmet and dazzling to other road users would be deemed to constitute some form of offence, most likely a public nuisance.

Manc33
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Re: Bike shop salesman abuse for not wearing a helmet

Postby Manc33 » 8 Feb 2016, 3:09pm

Thats why I have to have mine pointing down on the road, I wouldn't dream of using it the way I do on unlit roads. If I see a car coming, I dip it down. The one time it shone in someone's face... I got the message pretty quick when I saw how much they were screwing their eyes up, first time out using it not realizing you can't even look at it from 20 feet away. It cost £17.49.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.