"Chopper" Cyclist killed in 3-rider collision (Plastic hats)

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jgurney
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"Chopper" Cyclist killed in 3-rider collision (Plastic hats)

Postby jgurney » 14 May 2016, 1:14pm

From BBC news online:

"A cyclist has died after colliding with another rider on a country road.
The man, 50, suffered major head injuries after falling from his bike at about 22:00 BST on Thursday.
A woman cycling in front of him came off her bike on Hill Lane in Colne‎, Lancashire, causing him to collide with another male cyclist, police said.
He was taken to Royal Blackburn Hospital and later transferred to Royal Preston Hospital where he died the next day.
The other male rider, 40, was uninjured while the 19-year-old woman suffered bruising to her leg.
Sgt David Hurst, of Lancashire Police, appealed for witnesses to come forward and said his "thoughts are with his family" after these "tragic circumstances"."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-la ... e-36293065

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Paulatic
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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby Paulatic » 16 May 2016, 8:28am

Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life RIP Hannah Hauxwell

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iviehoff
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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby iviehoff » 17 May 2016, 3:45pm

Curiously, on Friday someone said to me "how long until a cyclist on cyclist collison causes a death". He was thinking of the situation in London, with the rapid growth in cycling and increasingly dense corralling them into superhighways and other routes. Clearly this incident is a random incident that could have happened any time.

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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby Bez » 17 May 2016, 4:50pm

iviehoff wrote:Curiously, on Friday someone said to me "how long until a cyclist on cyclist collison causes a death". He was thinking of the situation in London, with the rapid growth in cycling and increasingly dense corralling them into superhighways and other routes. Clearly this incident is a random incident that could have happened any time.


There were three fatal cyclist-on-cyclist collisions last year (although one was during a race). ISTR one of this year's earlier fatalities was also reported as being possibly due to contact between two riders.

climo
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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby climo » 18 May 2016, 8:39am

Hate to ask this but was he wearing a helmet? If not and being a head injury would one have helped him?

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hatless
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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby hatless » 18 May 2016, 8:51am

Would it have helped the woman who bruised her leg if she had been wearing motorcycling leathers? Would it have helped if they had all been on recumbents and falling off feet first? Would it have been better if they had all stayed at home?

There are many questions we could ask, and they all reveal a theory or two, and in some cases an axe to grind.

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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby climo » 18 May 2016, 9:08am

That's daft. I think it's a fair question and no doubt will occur to others. I'm not trying to preach or even trying to restart that intractable debate.

I had a horrendous head injury (not cycling) which would certainly have been mitigated or even eliminated had I been wearing a helmet. It has totally changed my life. Having seen what happened to me (paralysed, 2.5 years in rehab, blah, blah) all my friends wear helmets. Your choice of course but please don't try to belittle other peoples questions and viewpoints.

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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby Bez » 18 May 2016, 9:42am

climo wrote:Hate to ask this but was he wearing a helmet? If not and being a head injury would one have helped him?


1. Reports are not definitive but at least one suggests not (references here).
2. Maybe, maybe not.

Can we start asking the same question of people who die of (or otherwise suffer) head injuries in cars and on foot, please?

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horizon
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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby horizon » 18 May 2016, 9:51am

climo wrote:Hate to ask this but was he wearing a helmet? If not and being a head injury would one have helped him?


I think it's a good question and ideally this thread should be moved to the Helmets section where it can be discussed fully.

It was certainly on my mind. Here we have a tragic accident but one that was witnessed, could be carefully calibrated and didn't involve a vehicle. Had this been an air or train crash it would be thoroughly investigated. If it won't be or cannot be then we are none the wiser.

My guess climo is that we will not know - we will be back to conjecture. It is a shame that all the tools of forensic science cannot get us any further forward. My own view is that the crash was severe enough to make a helmet useless but that is only opinion.

My biggest fear is that a coroner will suggest that had he been wearing a helmet he would have survived (based on nothing more than personal speculation).
Bikes belong on trains: two spaces per carriage would meet most needs.

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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby Bez » 18 May 2016, 9:55am

climo wrote:I'm not trying to preach or even trying to restart that intractable debate.


Understood.

climo wrote:I had a horrendous head injury (not cycling) which would certainly have been mitigated or even eliminated had I been wearing a helmet. Having seen what happened to me (paralysed, 2.5 years in rehab, blah, blah) all my friends wear helmets. Your choice of course but…


Buh? *rubs eyes*

;)

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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby Bez » 18 May 2016, 9:58am

horizon wrote:My guess is that we will not know - we will be back to conjecture.


Understood.

horizon wrote:My own view is that the crash was severe enough to make a helmet useless


Buh? *rubs eyes*

;)

BrianFox
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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby BrianFox » 18 May 2016, 10:00am

Hi climo.

Sorry to hear of your accident. All the best with rehab/recovery.

I think what people take issue with is:

which would certainly have been mitigated or even eliminated had I been wearing a helmet

(my emphasis)

It's fine for you to believe a helmet would have protected you. But it is very far from certain that it would, on average protect cyclists, and indeed the evidence is that any such protection is so small as to be unmeasurable in real world studies. This is NOT the case with some other forms of transport protection (motorbike helmets, seat belts, airbags for instance). So to ask the question "was she wearing a helmet" is interpreted as blaming victims for their injuries, rather than trying to address the real issues. Which are generally road design and driver behaviour.

The emphasis on helmets is very frustrating; when in A&E with my son, who face planted, we were asked perhaps a dozen times if he'd been wearing a helmet. Yet for his injuries, it would have made no difference. Stabbing victims aren't asked repeatedly if they were wearing a kevlar vest. Imagine the outcry if they were. My son was, actually, wearing a helmet.

[full disclosure: I normally but not always wear a helmet. If nothing else it makes an excellent high level mounting point for extra lights]

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horizon
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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby horizon » 18 May 2016, 10:05am

Bez wrote:
horizon wrote:My own view is that the crash was severe enough to make a helmet useless


Buh? *rubs eyes*

;)


I don't follow.
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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby Bez » 18 May 2016, 10:22am

I'm just amused by the statements to the effect that it's all wild conjecture—that "we will not know", and that "all the tools of forensic science cannot get us any further forward"—followed immediately by the conjecture that the entirely unreported "severity" of the crash was "enough to make a helmet useless".

But at least it makes a nice counter to the earlier post about not preaching followed immediately by preaching :)

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Re: Cyclist killed in three-rider collision in Lancashire

Postby meic » 18 May 2016, 10:27am

followed immediately by the conjecture that the entirely unreported "severity" of the crash was "enough to make a helmet useless"


The reported fact that the rider died of a severe brain injury may just pass in most people's eyes as a report of the "severity" of the crash.
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