Lawmaking by the bereaved?

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
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bovlomov
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Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby bovlomov » 4 Oct 2016, 10:04pm

Another bereaved person calling for a change in the law. That's forgiveable, but I don't know why these opinions get so many column inches.
“She had been taking some selfies on the main road: she did that regularly and was media savvy,” he said. “She was not taking it at the moment of the accident. She was 100 metres from our house, one hand on the bars, quite relaxed, and probably had had a drink. She cycled that way every weekend and perhaps it’s familiarity breeding contempt. She was just having a lovely time, happy to be with her mother for her mum’s birthday. One second you’re happy and then next second it’s a trainwreck.”

He called for legislation to be introduced to require riders to wear a helmet, similar to that in force in Mrs Greenway’s native New Zealand.

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby irc » 4 Oct 2016, 10:28pm


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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby bovlomov » 4 Oct 2016, 10:30pm

Ah, sorry! It was a while ago. Shall I remove it or wait for the mods to?

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby Vorpal » 4 Oct 2016, 10:35pm

Maybe we can leave this one here for comments about the family calling for a helmet law, and leav eth other one where it is for discussion about other aspects of the incident.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby meic » 4 Oct 2016, 10:55pm

It is a good time to launch an attack on the freedoms of others because common decency prevents them from offering a fair and robust defence.
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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby irc » 4 Oct 2016, 10:58pm

meic wrote:It is a good time to launch an attack on the freedoms of others because common decency prevents them from offering a fair and robust defence.


I can see that point of view but in my opinion any family member who uses their relative's death as the starting point for a campaign has turned a private event into a political/public matter where any fair comment is allowed.

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby meic » 4 Oct 2016, 11:03pm

Yes but that fair comment will be seen in a bad light as you should be showing compassion for their loss.
The defeat will not be on a logical level but an emotional one. Emotionally that failure to show compassion can be used to invalidate your argument.
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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby Psamathe » 4 Oct 2016, 11:15pm

meic wrote:It is a good time to launch an attack on the freedoms of others because common decency prevents them from offering a fair and robust defence.

I would agree.

Sometimes families respond to such tragedies in a positive manner e.g. starting charities to e.g. raise awareness of e.g. specific medical screening or to provide lifesaving medical equipment to appropriate bodies.

As you say it is difficult to make comment on the family response to this tragedy as we are reserved about sounding (or even being interpreted as being) critical of people when they are dealing with such a loss. There certainly are other directions their campaigning could take.

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby bovlomov » 4 Oct 2016, 11:31pm

It's the stuff of black comedy - the multitude of ways in which people die and their relatives demand mandatory cycle helmets. Some of it is the relatives not wanting to face up to the fact that the deceased has been the author of their own misfortune, but there is more to it than that. Often you'd think that the motorist or highways engineer would be the most natural person to cop the flak, but somehow the helmet becomes the focus - even if the deceased was wearing one at the time of the accident.

Does it happen in any other area? Do the relatives of deceased heroin addicts ever call for earlier pub closing? Or do relatives of gangland shooting victims call for a change in the law regarding cross bonding on domestic wiring?

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby meic » 4 Oct 2016, 11:47pm

I have a non-cycling friend who is quite enamored of the fact that her eccentric uncle died out on his bike. She frequently says that she expects the same of me at sometime in my old age.
I have taken much greater risks with my life than riding a cycle (with or without a lid) my life would have been much poorer without having taken those risks. I happen to think that in a free society we should be able to enjoy life by riding home from the pub, taking selfies with one hand off the bars, with a pint or two inside of us and wearing whatever we chose. It isnt hurting anybody else and it isnt significantly greater risk than many other activities that we could have been taking part in instead.
In fact far, far less than my legal use of motorcycles.
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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby bovlomov » 4 Oct 2016, 11:59pm

meic wrote:I have a non-cycling friend who is quite enamored of the fact that her eccentric uncle died out on his bike. She frequently says that she expects the same of me at sometime in my old age.
I have taken much greater risks with my life than riding a cycle (with or without a lid) my life would have been much poorer without having taken those risks. I happen to think that in a free society we should be able to enjoy life by riding home from the pub, taking selfies with one hand off the bars, with a pint or two inside of us and wearing whatever we chose. It isnt hurting anybody else and it isnt significantly greater risk than many other activities that we could have been taking part in instead.
In fact far, far less than my legal use of motorcycles.

I agree. Whenever I see a cycling teenager doing wheelies on a busy road, a part of me disapproves, but also I can't help rejoicing - firstly because he (always he) is cycling at all, but also because of the fun he is having. After all, teenagers are always being criticised for being lazy and morose, yet these ones look as happy as a dog off the leash.

On the other hand, if he is killed while doing a wheelie, I hope his mother won't demand that we all should wear helmets.

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby meic » 5 Oct 2016, 12:26am

Prepare to rejoice in your disapproval.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrnTE2DmjlM

As you say all boys (and no helmets). Apologies for the language.
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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby Cunobelin » 5 Oct 2016, 5:56am

bovlomov wrote:
meic wrote:I have a non-cycling friend who is quite enamored of the fact that her eccentric uncle died out on his bike. She frequently says that she expects the same of me at sometime in my old age.
I have taken much greater risks with my life than riding a cycle (with or without a lid) my life would have been much poorer without having taken those risks. I happen to think that in a free society we should be able to enjoy life by riding home from the pub, taking selfies with one hand off the bars, with a pint or two inside of us and wearing whatever we chose. It isnt hurting anybody else and it isnt significantly greater risk than many other activities that we could have been taking part in instead.
In fact far, far less than my legal use of motorcycles.

I agree. Whenever I see a cycling teenager doing wheelies on a busy road, a part of me disapproves, but also I can't help rejoicing - firstly because he (always he) is cycling at all, but also because of the fun he is having. After all, teenagers are always being criticised for being lazy and morose, yet these ones look as happy as a dog off the leash.

On the other hand, if he is killed while doing a wheelie, I hope his mother won't demand that we all should wear helmets.



We had a local case where a young lad was knocked off by a car pulling out of a junction - severe leg and pelvis injuries.

Again the local press and parents campaign was not for more careful driving, but for helmets

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby kwackers » 5 Oct 2016, 10:46am

bovlomov wrote:I agree. Whenever I see a cycling teenager doing wheelies on a busy road, a part of me disapproves, but also I can't help rejoicing - firstly because he (always he) is cycling at all, but also because of the fun he is having. After all, teenagers are always being criticised for being lazy and morose, yet these ones look as happy as a dog off the leash.

On the other hand, if he is killed while doing a wheelie, I hope his mother won't demand that we all should wear helmets.

Some of them are really good at wheelies!

I've started practising riding with 'no-hands', I can even steer now. Surprising how hard something that once never required a second thought can be...
(The trick appears to be not to think about it... ;) )

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Re: Lawmaking by the bereaved?

Postby Psamathe » 5 Oct 2016, 11:24am

meic wrote:I have a non-cycling friend who is quite enamored of the fact that her eccentric uncle died out on his bike. She frequently says that she expects the same of me at sometime in my old age.
I have taken much greater risks with my life than riding a cycle (with or without a lid) my life would have been much poorer without having taken those risks. I happen to think that in a free society we should be able to enjoy life by riding home from the pub, taking selfies with one hand off the bars, with a pint or two inside of us and wearing whatever we chose. It isnt hurting anybody else and it isnt significantly greater risk than many other activities that we could have been taking part in instead....

I would in part agree in that I feel we should be able to take those risks (if we so chose). Make us aware of the risks but give us the freedom to take them.

Talking in general terms NOT about the incident that started the thread and not talking about wearing helmets:
Except, we need to be clear about the impact of those risks. If somebody wants to play the fool on the roads and get themselves injured then they have chosen to take those risks but the innocent driver whose wheels that person ended-up under will normally not go home and enjoy Strictly Come Dancing and life goes on as though nothing had happened. A car that swerves into oncoming traffic to avoid somebody "taking those risks" can mean people choosing not to take those risks become victims. I'm sure I remember reading about the psychological trauma experienced by train drivers who are driving a train somebody decides to commit suicide under (even though there was absolutely nothing that driver could have done to avoid the incident). The victim can on occasions not just be the injured parties.

Ian