"You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
wahoofish
Posts: 91
Joined: 20 May 2015, 10:41am

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby wahoofish » 12 Jan 2017, 8:58pm

Mike Sales wrote:Wahoofish, does your characterisation of South African cyclists include the majority blak population?
Do many black people race or ride as a hobby? Is the proportion of township commuters in helmets similar to lycra-clad
white businessmen?
It would be interesting to know.


Not sure if you are trying to imply anything with your Lycra clad white businessmen statement. Are you assuming that I am one of them? What on earth gives you the right to make any assumptions about my race or observations?

Mike Sales
Posts: 4421
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re:

Postby Mike Sales » 12 Jan 2017, 9:59pm

wahoofish wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:Wahoofish, does your characterisation of South African cyclists include the majority blak population?
Do many black people race or ride as a hobby? Is the proportion of township commuters in helmets similar to lycra-clad
white businessmen?
It would be interesting to know.


Not sure if you are trying to imply anything with your Lycra clad white businessmen statement. Are you assuming that I am one of them? What on earth gives you the right to make any assumptions about my race or observations?


No assumptions, only questions. Any answers?

landsurfer
Posts: 5081
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby landsurfer » 12 Jan 2017, 10:06pm

Hat keeps my head warm in winter, helmet does not, helmet and hat = steam ..... really ???
The Road Goes On Forever

wahoofish
Posts: 91
Joined: 20 May 2015, 10:41am

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby wahoofish » 12 Jan 2017, 10:09pm

Commuters - mainly but not exclusively black population. Hobby cyclists mainly but not even close to exclusively white, although both ratios change depending where you go in the country as we have a rich mix of people's. Helmet laws apply to all, although not policed as effectively as they could be. Anecdotes from doctors etc apply to all.

Roads are particularly unsafe for cyclists resulting in a lot of serious accidents. Not sure of current statistics but 2014 average of 67 road deaths (motorists, pedestrians, cyclists) resulting in fatality at the scene of the accident, per day. Figure excluded anybody who died after leaving the scene in an ambulance and was a best estimate using the numbers available. In addition, helmets help protect against those who seek to knock you on your head and take your bicycle, also a fairly common problem.

As I said, a different environment.


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my iPad using Tapatalk

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17178
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby [XAP]Bob » 13 Jan 2017, 10:05am

Helmets protect against people hitting you on the head?

That's not what they're designed for - and frankly that's like mandating that everyone in the US should always wear a bullet proof vest.

I mean it's great for vest manufacturers, and would doubtless save a few lives - but it's not the correct answer to gun control.


67 deaths a day - how many are cyclists?
How many of those *didn't* have fatal chest/neck injuries, but died from a head injury?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 2919
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby The utility cyclist » 13 Jan 2017, 12:56pm

Wouldn't wearing a helmet in that environment more likely identify you as someone with an expensive bike worth pinching/assaulting you for thus you increase the chances of you being attacked. Similarly how the po-po can easily pick you out in the traffic for non helmet wearing, easy targets amongst those complicit with the unlawful acts.
Psychology in human beings is the same no matter what the environ and thus partly why helmets have failed, I was going to say "to come anywhere close to doing what the evangelists say they do" but just failed is actually more succinct.

Also given the restrictions that helmets pose to wearers over non wearers one would be less able to ackowledge attackers right?
Just trying to help you out to reduce those attacks whilst you're out cycling :D

irc
Posts: 4673
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re:

Postby irc » 13 Jan 2017, 1:09pm

wahoofish wrote:C Not sure of current statistics but 2014 average of 67 road deaths (motorists, pedestrians, cyclists) resulting in fatality at the scene of the accident, per day.


The UK has around 5 RTA deaths per day. Around 1 cyclist death every 3 days. Given South Africa has a death rate 13 times higher can I suggest helmets are not the solution. The road safety measures the UK has in place would save thousands of lives from all road user groups.

“Drivers in South Africa are lawless. They speed. They drive under the influence of liquor. They go through red traffic lights. They and their passengers don’t wear seatbelts... Many don’t have valid licenses, their vehicles aren’t roadworthy… And hey, if you get caught by a cop for any of this, you just bribe your way out of trouble.”


http://www.voanews.com/a/south-african- ... 05148.html

In the current South African road environment worrying about helmets is a bit like someone who's house is on fire worrying about the toast getting burnt.

Boyd
Posts: 509
Joined: 24 Oct 2016, 11:56pm

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby Boyd » 9 Feb 2017, 10:16am

mjr wrote:
Boyd wrote:
mjr wrote:Few cycle helmets are full face, so don't protect the face. Indeed, the bits of most helmets near the face are for cosmetic and positioning stability reasons, not protection.

I can't agree with you on that. My face never catches the ground other than the tip of my nose. As my helmet is covered in scratches I assume it is protecting my face.

One helmet is not "most helmets", you're using a helmet that isn't designed for cycling anyway, you probably should replace it after a crash (although I don't know if skateboard helmets are the same as cycle helmets in that regard) and why the heck are you spending so much time on your face anyway?

"and why the heck are you spending so much time on your face anyway?" Urmm no comment!

Boyd
Posts: 509
Joined: 24 Oct 2016, 11:56pm

Re: Re:

Postby Boyd » 9 Feb 2017, 10:23am

Mike Sales wrote:
wahoofish wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:Wahoofish, does your characterisation of South African cyclists include the majority blak population?
Do many black people race or ride as a hobby? Is the proportion of township commuters in helmets similar to lycra-clad
white businessmen?
It would be interesting to know.


Not sure if you are trying to imply anything with your Lycra clad white businessmen statement. Are you assuming that I am one of them? What on earth gives you the right to make any assumptions about my race or observations?


No assumptions, only questions. Any answers?

He is implying your a white racist or is that white and a racist? You are now required to apologise for being white.....opps I am making an assumption?

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14993
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby mjr » 9 Feb 2017, 11:11am

Boyd wrote:"and why the heck are you spending so much time on your face anyway?" Urmm no comment!

Sorry for putting it so crudely but I suspect addressing the cause for crashing so much would do much more good than any helmet. Sliding along the floor on one's face is not a part of non-extreme cycling.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Boyd
Posts: 509
Joined: 24 Oct 2016, 11:56pm

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby Boyd » 9 Feb 2017, 11:32am

mjr wrote:
Boyd wrote:"and why the heck are you spending so much time on your face anyway?" Urmm no comment!

Sorry for putting it so crudely but I suspect addressing the cause for crashing so much would do much more good than any helmet. Sliding along the floor on one's face is not a part of non-extreme cycling.

I have come off bike only once since last March when a motorbike hit me from behind. My bike was found a long way back down the road. My helmet had extra scratches on it a lot of extra scratches particuly to the front. I had some slight scratches on my face and one broken and one chipped tooth. No actual marks at all around the mouth area. When not wearing a helmet many years before I was forced onto the grass verge by a car in heavy rain I came off and slid along the ground on my face. Lots and lots of stitches. I like to be more careful now as I have a dog and she is either running near me or in a trailer.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14993
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby mjr » 9 Feb 2017, 12:20pm

Boyd wrote: ... motorbike hit me from behind ... forced onto the grass verge by a car in heavy rain I came off ...

Sorry to hear that and I hope the incompetent motorists were prosecuted but helmets are not designed for either situation, so really shouldn't be a reason for anyone to use one.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17178
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Feb 2017, 7:23pm

Clear need for a gumshiepd then...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Boyd
Posts: 509
Joined: 24 Oct 2016, 11:56pm

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby Boyd » 9 Feb 2017, 10:53pm

mjr wrote:
Boyd wrote: ... motorbike hit me from behind ... forced onto the grass verge by a car in heavy rain I came off ...

Sorry to hear that and I hope the incompetent motorists were prosecuted but helmets are not designed for either situation, so really shouldn't be a reason for anyone to use one.

no idea who the car driver was But I wouldn't have needed so many stiches if I had been wearing a helmet as was shown in second accident I quoted (and others in between). The motor cyclist was made to take a course. He injured his back. Only a young lad, so his main punishment will be the increase in insurance. I actually look on it as a glass three quarters full ie the compo. Although one toe is still fractured after nearly a year? Which I think guarantes arthritis (fracture on the joint).

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 2919
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: "You wear a hat, why not wear a helmet?"

Postby The utility cyclist » 10 Feb 2017, 9:31pm

Boyd wrote:
mjr wrote:
Boyd wrote: ... motorbike hit me from behind ... forced onto the grass verge by a car in heavy rain I came off ...

Sorry to hear that and I hope the incompetent motorists were prosecuted but helmets are not designed for either situation, so really shouldn't be a reason for anyone to use one.

no idea who the car driver was But I wouldn't have needed so many stiches if I had been wearing a helmet as was shown in second accident I quoted (and others in between). The motor cyclist was made to take a course. He injured his back. Only a young lad, so his main punishment will be the increase in insurance. I actually look on it as a glass three quarters full ie the compo. Although one toe is still fractured after nearly a year? Which I think guarantes arthritis (fracture on the joint).

How can you know that for sure?
Here James Ellington suffers a huge cut to his head, he was wearing a helmet whilst riding a motorcycle, maybe, just maybe that might not have happened if he wasn't, maybe if he was actually thinking I'm doing something reasonably risky he would have ridden with more care thus avoiding the incident in the first place. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/38925613
Then note the presenter of this BBC Four programme, she's riding a motorbike between locations (and not just going around the corner) but doesn't die because she's not riding like a jerk despite not wearing a helmet (4 minutes in and other occasions) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyCmXNO5wnI