"Don't forget to wear a helmet"

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
Jon Lucas
Posts: 213
Joined: 6 Mar 2009, 6:02pm

"Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby Jon Lucas » 3 Mar 2017, 8:34pm

I was rather amused when listening to Radio Bristol yesterday. They had a piece about the Naked Bike Ride coming back to Bristol this June. It was actually given a fair amount of publicity in a reasonably balanced way, considering how it might have appeared in much of the media, but was spoiled at the end by those inevitable words from the broadcaster to the participants.

Which sort of ignores the fact that they would be naked. :D

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 42978
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby Mick F » 3 Mar 2017, 8:47pm

Sounds lie a nice day out.
http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/inde ... le=Bristol
I won't be wearing a helmet, but I might wear my shoes to clip in to my pedals.
Mick F. Cornwall

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 1684
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby The utility cyclist » 3 Mar 2017, 10:01pm

I was reading an article last week about introducing kids into cycling, then the muppet (Rob Basinger head of protect your bubble mentioned at the end about ensuring kids had helmets :roll:
“Some children learn to ride on two wheels as young as 3.5 years of age. Grass will provide a softer landing but is more difficult to cycle on than a wide, flat tarmac surface, obviously well away from any traffic. It goes without saying they should be wearing a helmet, and start by getting them to practice squeezing their brakes while walking the bike along."

Obviously ignoring the fact that more than 3000 children die from head trauma in the UK and only 6 children died on bikes in total, none of which were proven to be prevented by the wearing of (if they weren't already) cycle helmets.
similar stats in france, in fact worse for non cycling children and head traumas.
people are obsessed with them and yet those in the know know they are next to motor vehicles the biggest detriment to safe cycling not just from the risk compensation but using helmets as a means to avoid other more meaningful action regarding safety.

Jon Lucas
Posts: 213
Joined: 6 Mar 2009, 6:02pm

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby Jon Lucas » 4 Mar 2017, 8:58am

Mick F wrote:Sounds lie a nice day out.
http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/inde ... le=Bristol
I won't be wearing a helmet, but I might wear my shoes to clip in to my pedals.


Thanks Mick. The photo in that link seems to neatly strip the helmet debate down to the bare essentials. :)

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 8124
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby Cunobelin » 4 Mar 2017, 10:51am

The utility cyclist wrote:I was reading an article last week about introducing kids into cycling, then the muppet (Rob Basinger head of protect your bubble mentioned at the end about ensuring kids had helmets :roll:
“Some children learn to ride on two wheels as young as 3.5 years of age. Grass will provide a softer landing but is more difficult to cycle on than a wide, flat tarmac surface, obviously well away from any traffic. It goes without saying they should be wearing a helmet, and start by getting them to practice squeezing their brakes while walking the bike along."

Obviously ignoring the fact that more than 3000 children die from head trauma in the UK and only 6 children died on bikes in total, none of which were proven to be prevented by the wearing of (if they weren't already) cycle helmets.
similar stats in france, in fact worse for non cycling children and head traumas.
people are obsessed with them and yet those in the know know they are next to motor vehicles the biggest detriment to safe cycling not just from the risk compensation but using helmets as a means to avoid other more meaningful action regarding safety.



There was also evidence form one organisation, that excluding children from training because they did not have helmets was detrimental. It was the lower income groups who suffered more accidents and were less likely to have a helmet

IT always seemed ironic to place an unproven safety device as a barrier to a proven intervention that reduces the accident rate in these children

User avatar
pjclinch
Posts: 3228
Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby pjclinch » 4 Mar 2017, 2:08pm

Cunobelin wrote:There was also evidence form one organisation, that excluding children from training because they did not have helmets was detrimental. It was the lower income groups who suffered more accidents and were less likely to have a helmet


A doctor based in Gateshead sent out a questionnaire to various local authorities in 2011 asking about their helmet policies for training. The replies had an interesting mix, half required them, half not, and the commentary with the "not" group included words to the effect of the above. Training was more important than helmets, in other words, with which I concur.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

User avatar
ChrisOntLancs
Posts: 527
Joined: 20 Oct 2016, 9:47pm

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby ChrisOntLancs » 4 Mar 2017, 3:37pm

i've been wanting to do the naked bike ride for ages but when lots of people in no clothes get together for a bike ride loads of other people have to bring cameras.

and similarly to OP's juxtaposition, nobody cared about all those bike pics i put on facebook

nearly ignored this thread because of the subforum. my newfound curiosity rewarded :lol:

MikeF
Posts: 3453
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 9:24am
Location: On the borders of the four South East Counties

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby MikeF » 4 Mar 2017, 6:44pm

Jon Lucas wrote:I was rather amused when listening to Radio Bristol yesterday. They had a piece about the Naked Bike Ride coming back to Bristol this June. It was actually given a fair amount of publicity in a reasonably balanced way, considering how it might have appeared in much of the media, but was spoiled at the end by those inevitable words from the broadcaster to the participants.

Which sort of ignores the fact that they would be naked. :D
Depends on the tone of how the words were spoken. :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

irc
Posts: 4343
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby irc » 5 Mar 2017, 7:24am

The utility cyclist wrote:Obviously ignoring the fact that more than 3000 children die from head trauma in the UK and only 6 children died on bikes in total, none of which were proven to be prevented by the wearing of (if they weren't already) cycle helmets.


Any source for that 3000 claim? Seems far too high to me. A google suggests an annual UK head trauma death rate for children of 5.3 per 100,000. Which would need a child population of around 60 million to get to 3000.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/210 ... t=Abstract

brynpoeth
Posts: 7296
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby brynpoeth » 5 Mar 2017, 7:31am

One must not be completely naked, the motto is "as bare as one dares"

I guess those who are not quite naked could be called *partici-pants*
Cycling - of course, but it is far better on a Gillott..alternative facts welcome

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 8124
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby Cunobelin » 5 Mar 2017, 9:59am

irc wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Obviously ignoring the fact that more than 3000 children die from head trauma in the UK and only 6 children died on bikes in total, none of which were proven to be prevented by the wearing of (if they weren't already) cycle helmets.


Any source for that 3000 claim? Seems far too high to me. A google suggests an annual UK head trauma death rate for children of 5.3 per 100,000. Which would need a child population of around 60 million to get to 3000.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/210 ... t=Abstract



TThe figures are difficult, and organisations like BHIT and Headway openly lie about the numbers

Both had the unfortunate situation where the helmet legislation would increase head injuries.....

After legislation they would be recording 52 incidents where the cycle helmet had saved a life, that is some 8 times as many incidents that were occurring prior to the legislation!


Headway were the same.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 4675
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby Bonefishblues » 5 Mar 2017, 10:05am

Naive question, having looked on the site, but not seen an answer. Why is there a naked bike day?

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 8124
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby Cunobelin » 5 Mar 2017, 10:54am

Bonefishblues wrote:Naive question, having looked on the site, but not seen an answer. Why is there a naked bike day?



Here you are

Bonefishblues
Posts: 4675
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby Bonefishblues » 5 Mar 2017, 11:05am

Thanks, shall peruse at my leisure :D

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 1684
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm

Re: "Don't forget to wear a helmet"

Postby The utility cyclist » 5 Mar 2017, 1:41pm

irc wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Obviously ignoring the fact that more than 3000 children die from head trauma in the UK and only 6 children died on bikes in total, none of which were proven to be prevented by the wearing of (if they weren't already) cycle helmets.


Any source for that 3000 claim? Seems far too high to me. A google suggests an annual UK head trauma death rate for children of 5.3 per 100,000. Which would need a child population of around 60 million to get to 3000.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/210 ... t=Abstract

If I've misinterpreted the data please correct.

"In the UK, 50,000 children a year are admitted to hospital with head injuries (about 10% of all childhood hospital admissions) (Reed et al 2005), and mortality has risen from 6% in 1990-1993 to around 7% in 2002-2005 (Bayreuther et al 2009). Data from the TARN registry (2014) show that in children aged under 16 years with severe head injury mortality was recorded at 6.1% (n=952)."

https://rcni.com/emergency-nurse/eviden ... dren-59896
http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice ... s-figures/

This I wrote on the France Helmet law discussion
The utility cyclist wrote:Reported numbers I saw for France were 281 TBIs per 100,000 population circa 2010, based on the population of the time that gives you about 172,000 TBIs annually covering all aspects of life.
This I found from the US: https://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjur ... facts.html

Among TBI-related deaths in 2006–2010:

Men were nearly three times as likely to die as women.
Rates were highest for persons 65 years and older.
The leading cause of TBI-related death varied by age.
Falls were the leading cause of death for persons 65 years or older.
Motor vehicle crashes were the leading cause for children and young adults ages 5-24 years
Assaults were the leading cause for children ages 0-4.

Among non-fatal TBI-related injuries for 2006–2010:

Men had higher rates of TBI hospitalizations and ED visits than women.
Hospitalization rates were highest among persons aged 65 years and older.
Rates of ED visits were highest for children aged 0-4 years.
Falls were the leading cause of TBI-related ED visits for all but one age group.
Assaults were the leading cause of TBI-related ED visits for persons 15 to 24 years of age.
The leading cause of TBI-related hospitalizations varied by age:
Falls were the leading cause among children ages 0-14 and adults 45 years and older.
Motor vehicle crashes were the leading cause of hospitalizations for adolescents and persons ages 15-44 years.