Helmets in Majorca (split)

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
old_windbag
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Re: Helmets in Majorca (split)

Postby old_windbag » 22 Apr 2017, 12:05pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Now look at a moped helmet - it's a different beast entirely from a cycle helmet....


Fully aware of that, my point is that if helmets are seen as not necessary at bicycle speeds then they should also not be necessary on restricted mopeds/scooters. The typical average speeds not being a chasm apart and the speed differential to other higher speed road users similarly. Motorbikes clearly are in a different classification speedwise so not relevant, but 30mph max two wheelers I feel are.

But we have free choice to wear or not, and free choice as to which data we use to make that decision, sometimes that may be from first hand events. Anytime there's a person who feels they've benfited from wearing a helmet in an accident they get shot down with lot's of "if's and and's, pot's and pan's" counter arguments.

So I think in the helmets situation it's live and let live, it's our own freedom of choice as to what cycling attire we adorn ourselves with.

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mjr
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Re: Helmets in Majorca (split)

Postby mjr » 23 Apr 2017, 9:59am

Your freedom of choice to swing your arm ends at my nose and your freedom of choice to wear a pointless potty ends at increasing the risk of mandatory helmet laws, increasing the burden on the NHS by making oneself crash more/worse and deterring cycling with all the varied drawbacks that has, and increasing the risk of people behaving like fake racers in inappropriate situations. Despite their obvious benefits in collisions, you're not allowed to wear racing helmets while motoring and shouldn't be allowed to while cycling either.
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Vorpal
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Re: Helmets in Majorca (split)

Postby Vorpal » 23 Apr 2017, 11:18am

old_windbag wrote: it's our own freedom of choice as to what cycling attire we adorn ourselves with.

For now.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

old_windbag
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Re: Helmets in Majorca (split)

Postby old_windbag » 23 Apr 2017, 12:11pm

mjr wrote:Your freedom of choice to swing your arm ends at my nose and your freedom of choice to wear a pointless potty ends at increasing the risk of mandatory helmet laws


Vorpal wrote:For now.


You're both being too pessimistic. I think the general selfishness pervading our roads, demonstrated predominantly by car drivers( I find professional drivers on the whole have a more tolerant attitude ), is more damaging to the take up of cycling. As we can't carpet the uk in genuine separated cycle provision we have to make use of the roads we have. But human nature is in itself detrimental, once you get a taste for something faster, drier, more convenient dare I say, then it's hard to turn back. I cycle to stay fit, I'm not a cycle commuter, I do it as it is a nice way to see the world with health benefits. But I am unusual, as most people I chat too have no interest in riding a bike, whether for fitness or mode of transport or both. So wearing a helmet or lycra is the tip of the iceberg in the many reasons people choose not to ride.

mjr wrote: increasing the risk of people behaving like fake racers in inappropriate situations


I'm not in that camp, I have a road bike for fair weather, it's a joy in it's efficiency..... but it's not the most practical bike. Therefore it's my treat on sunny day's, for 6 months of the UK year. I don't use a smartphone on my bike( I have one ), I don't have any interest in strava, but I use a HRM( edge 510 ) for fitness purposes. Even wearing a helmet I am cautious and riding country roads for good reason as you will both understand. Outside of the helmets debate, testosterone has a big part to play in excessive speed/risk taking in young males. I cannot control our current love of social media and it's shallowness and the other apps it's spawned leading to the "fake racers" and the"distracted drivers" too.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Helmets in Majorca (split)

Postby [XAP]Bob » 23 Apr 2017, 4:58pm

old_windbag wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Now look at a moped helmet - it's a different beast entirely from a cycle helmet....


Fully aware of that, my point is that if helmets are seen as not necessary at bicycle speeds then they should also not be necessary on restricted mopeds/scooters. The typical average speeds not being a chasm apart and the speed differential to other higher speed road users similarly. Motorbikes clearly are in a different classification speedwise so not relevant, but 30mph max two wheelers I feel are.

But we have free choice to wear or not, and free choice as to which data we use to make that decision, sometimes that may be from first hand events. Anytime there's a person who feels they've benfited from wearing a helmet in an accident they get shot down with lot's of "if's and and's, pot's and pan's" counter arguments.

So I think in the helmets situation it's live and let live, it's our own freedom of choice as to what cycling attire we adorn ourselves with.



Agree, but there are a few key differences...
- the moped is often seen as a baby motorbike
- the cost/benefit ratio does change as the benefit increases (even if it is increasing from a low starting point). At least a moped helmet has a decent chance of doing some good.

Having been over in the US for a couple of weeks I spotted quite a few motorcyclists without helmets on around town - slightly odd to see, but it didn't look as if they were all about to explode
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Ruadh495
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Re: Helmets in Majorca (split)

Postby Ruadh495 » 25 Apr 2017, 2:27pm

A moped helmet is a motorcycle helmet, there's only one standard, at least in this country. And that's part of the problem, I think. The reasoning goes like this: "This level of protection is necessary on a 30mph moped (it's not, but we can't be bothered to distinguish between mopeds and superbikes); pedal cycles can go at almost the same speed, riders must require similar head protection". Cyclists won't accept the weight and heat of the motorcycle helmet, so we are left with the cycle "helmet".