School trying to make helmets compulsory

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
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Cunobelin
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby Cunobelin » 9 Dec 2017, 7:13pm

manybikes wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:

That's interesting because I fitted the studded tyre to the rear, driving wheel, because I found I was slipping backwards down a hill I was climbing near Chalton in Hampshire because of lack of grip.
In retrospect I would have been better to fit three studded tyres.054 resized for forum2.jpg



Absolutely correct...... I made that error as well


Then I discovered (I should have spotted it initially) that with these trikes braking is on the front wheels as well, so studded tyres are essential on all 3


I also like a fairing in this weather


Image

Image

Adnepos
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby Adnepos » 12 Dec 2017, 11:46pm

The helmet-wearing requirement for school seems to be gathering momentum. See

https/www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/on-yer-dodgy-bike-to-see-the-head-5tpl52sm6

Also on Cycling UK without the paywall

http://road.cc/content/news/233703-scho ... cle-helmet

From chatting to a parent, this is a longstanding position for The Perse. But that doesn't mean it is the right position.

mattsccm
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby mattsccm » 13 Dec 2017, 7:46am

"think that we are already at the point of its personal choice, I am against compulsory, unless stats later prove over whelmingly its safer.
Like with motorcycles and car seat belts. "
Compulsion is still wrong though. "its my head" etc.

Steady rider
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby Steady rider » 13 Dec 2017, 9:17am

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1250.html

Conclusion
When changes in cycle use are taken into account, Alberta’s helmet law seems to have increased the risk of both head and non-head injuries.


For children and teenagers the hours cycled pre law 5.48, post law 2.99, injuries (non-head injuries) increased,
change in injuries relative to change in cycling, increased by 2.28

Other research reveals the negative safety effects from helmet use.

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pjclinch
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby pjclinch » 13 Dec 2017, 11:37am

mattsccm wrote:"think that we are already at the point of its personal choice, I am against compulsory, unless stats later prove over whelmingly its safer.
Like with motorcycles and car seat belts. "
Compulsion is still wrong though. "its my head" etc.


Motorcycle helmets and car seat belts...
The game there is that we can be reasonably sure that in a crash you're better off wearing one, but that's not actually what you need to know for policy. For that we need to know if overall public health goes up or down if the measure is used, and that's not very clear cut, even for car seat belts with all that crash-test dummy data showing how good they are at preserving people wearing them in crashes.

The only country that has ever showed a significant gain after seat belt legislation is the UK, but it was coincident with other factors like the introduction of evidential breath testing. If you look at the time profile of when most casualties came down it coincided with chucking out time at the pubs. What did happen after compulsory seatbelts came in was pedestrian and cyclists casualties went up, as all those "safer" drivers used up their risk reductions. Rear seatbelts coincided with an increase in injuries.

Yes, really. Check out John Adams' "Risk" for more, but seatbelts are such sacred cows that saying such things, even when they're true, in a general setting will get you labelled as mad. Helmets are heading the same way, so we must keep harping on as doing nothing amounts to encouraging them in the present climate.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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mjr
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby mjr » 13 Dec 2017, 5:41pm

Vorpal wrote:As for studded tyres, you can buy Marathon winter tyres (fewer studs than the Ice Spikes) for under £30 for a pair on eBay. My first set lasted 3 winters before I began losing studs.

Damn it! :( Where? I thought I had a good deal at £40 a pair for 622 wheels. (which is what Spa sell the MTB-size Snow Studs for).
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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Cunobelin
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Dec 2017, 7:13pm

Adnepos wrote:The helmet-wearing requirement for school seems to be gathering momentum. See

https/www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/on-yer-dodgy-bike-to-see-the-head-5tpl52sm6

Also on Cycling UK without the paywall

http://road.cc/content/news/233703-scho ... cle-helmet

From chatting to a parent, this is a longstanding position for The Perse. But that doesn't mean it is the right position.


Perhaps the teachers could also extend this to the traffic problems around the School, and parking in local residential areas that cause issues for local residents

After all they now have the "right and responsibility" to report poor behaviour

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661-Pete
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby 661-Pete » 14 Dec 2017, 9:51am

Adnepos wrote:The helmet-wearing requirement for school seems to be gathering momentum. See

https/www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/on-yer-dodgy-bike-to-see-the-head-5tpl52sm6

Also on Cycling UK without the paywall

http://road.cc/content/news/233703-scho ... cle-helmet

From chatting to a parent, this is a longstanding position for The Perse. But that doesn't mean it is the right position.

I'd never heard of "Perse School", but easy enough to google it! It seems they take in all sorts there:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ca ... e-37322599

Perhaps - may I suggest - they devote more energy to addressing serious disciplinary issues involving their own pupils, rather than yakking on about h*lm*ts?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

Ruadh495
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby Ruadh495 » 14 Dec 2017, 10:50am

Saw a pupil on his way to school yesterday; riding on the pavement on the wrong side of the road, dark clothing (school uniform), no lights, but he did have a helmet... hung from the side of the saddle.

So I guess one of my local schools has a similar policy.

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mjr
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby mjr » 14 Dec 2017, 11:56am

Ruadh495 wrote:Saw a pupil on his way to school yesterday; riding on the pavement on the wrong side of the road, dark clothing (school uniform), no lights, but he did have a helmet... hung from the side of the saddle.

So I guess one of my local schools has a similar policy.

Assuming it was after sunrise, a secondary-school-age child and the pavement isn't actually a cycleway, riding on the pavement seems the only thing seriously wrong there.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Ruadh495
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby Ruadh495 » 14 Dec 2017, 12:28pm

I'm not sure it was after sunrise, legally it might have been but there certainly wasn't much light and I wouldn't have considered riding without lights in those conditions myself.

Lacking lights I think riding on the pavement was a good choice.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby The utility cyclist » 14 Dec 2017, 1:59pm

Ruadh495 wrote:I'm not sure it was after sunrise, legally it might have been but there certainly wasn't much light and I wouldn't have considered riding without lights in those conditions myself.

Lacking lights I think riding on the pavement was a good choice.

But if they were on the pavement they wouldn't need lights in any case, were you aware they'd cycled on the road or intended to do so otherwise?

You managed to see them with dark clothing and no light and forgive me but I'm not sure that kids on bikes have caused the death of another person in my living memory through not having lights or a helmet or just simply cycling even if in what some would consider a 'dangerous' manner.
People running into/over kids on bikes with or without lights on or off the road are the ones doing something dangerous, not the child.
We need to get away from this way of thinking that armouring kids up and telling them they need lights and hi-vis is the solution to the problem, it really isn't :x

landsurfer
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby landsurfer » 14 Dec 2017, 2:04pm

The utility cyclist wrote:
Ruadh495 wrote:I'm not sure it was after sunrise, legally it might have been but there certainly wasn't much light and I wouldn't have considered riding without lights in those conditions myself.

Lacking lights I think riding on the pavement was a good choice.

But if they were on the pavement they wouldn't need lights in any case, were you aware they'd cycled on the road or intended to do so otherwise?

You managed to see them with dark clothing and no light and forgive me but I'm not sure that kids on bikes have caused the death of another person in my living memory through not having lights or a helmet or just simply cycling even if in what some would consider a 'dangerous' manner.
People running into/over kids on bikes with or without lights on or off the road are the ones doing something dangerous, not the child.
We need to get away from this way of thinking that armouring kids up and telling them they need lights and hi-vis is the solution to the problem, it really isn't :x


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Ruadh495
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby Ruadh495 » 14 Dec 2017, 3:14pm

My comment was more about the possession (rather than use, though arguably it was doing as much good where it was as it would be on his head and didn't present a strangulation risk) of the helmet than anything else, though the riding on the pavement was illegal and the lack of lights would have made riding legally on the road more dangerous than it would have been with lights. The carrying of a helmet suggested to me that the school was concerning itself with helmets but not with lights or training (both of which are IMO more important)

Should perhaps add that I rather approve of his approach to school helmet rules (assuming that was the reason), high vis etc, though personally I'd use lights and ride on the road rather than the pavement.

As far as I know I've never failed to see an unlit cyclist while driving a motor vehicle (where did that dent come from... ) but I have had a couple of near misses cycling recently. Narrow badly lit cycle paths after dark, cyclists coming the other way quite fast without lights. Got me wondering what would have happened if I had also been unlit.

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Cunobelin
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Re: School trying to make helmets compulsory

Postby Cunobelin » 14 Dec 2017, 6:40pm

I would love to see the “accident book” for these schools

Ask how many head injuries (or other injuries) were recorded and where

The Evidence suggests that the results would show the main area of concern is the playground..... perhaps helmets and HiViz would prevent these injuries?