Helmets with built in lights

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
Vorpal
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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby Vorpal » 19 Feb 2018, 8:55am

Bowak wrote:Ok, so maybe saying I don't give a monkeys' about respect was overly hyperbolic and of course I care about all users properly respecting and watching out for each other. But it was more in reply to the response above that reply from Graham which I thought was pointlessly sarcastic to a genuine question - it really did jump out at me just how visible this one guy was, when many of my fellow cycle commuters in South Manchester are almost invisible to other cyclists, let alone drivers.

Now obviously, tone doesn't always carry across amazingly well on the internet, so at least a couple of us have probably got somewhat the wrong end of the stick about just how jokey/serious each other has been about every specific utterance.

Well, I think the winky face was meant to make it (half) a joke.

On the other hand, being staff, Graham sees threads like this all the time. You, of course, don't see the same sorts of things posted on here day after day.

Graham's point actually is one that is discussed on here fairly often. The onus should be on drivers to see us, rather than cyclists to make themselves visible. Drivers who don't look, won't see a cyclist, even if she lights herself up like a Xmas tree.
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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby Bowak » 19 Feb 2018, 9:16am

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on the intended tone.

I even agree that it is up to drivers to spot cyclists and that excessive lights and hi-vis could be counterproductive - but I'm wary of the idea that no cyclist is ever at fault as there are at least a couple on my commute everyday who use no lights whatsoever and plenty who dart across traffic with no prior indication.

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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby mjr » 19 Feb 2018, 10:49am

Bowak wrote:I even agree that it is up to drivers to spot cyclists and that excessive lights and hi-vis could be counterproductive - but I'm wary of the idea that no cyclist is ever at fault as there are at least a couple on my commute everyday who use no lights whatsoever and plenty who dart across traffic with no prior indication.

And yet, using no lights isn't a particularly common factor in collisions (under 3%) while darting out (formally something like "failed to yield when joining lane") is usually in the top 5 (along with motorist failed to yield, left hook, right cross and getting doored).

I think anyone who thinks even more and confusing lights is a good idea needs to take a look at the real casualty data for a while.
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Mick F
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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby Mick F » 19 Feb 2018, 2:02pm

mjr wrote:They're incredibly stupid, showing misleading lights in every direction each time you look around. It's only legal because lighting regulations apply to the bike not the rider, but I'd expect you to lose a chunk of any insurance claim as a result of displaying confusing lights.
Spot on.

I think they should be banned.
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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby robing » 20 Feb 2018, 1:24pm

mjr wrote:
Bowak wrote:I don't give a monkeys' about drivers respecting me - I care about maximising the chances of them seeing me and not hitting me.

Then help CUK campaign for road justice.

The catalogue of hi viz emergency vehicles with blue lights on getting crashed into suggests this isn't a winning tactic. The main thing it achieves is another small step of making cycling even more unusual, that such outlandish costumery doesn't fail the laugh test, disadvantaging yourself and every other rider and non rider by reducing the safety in numbers effect.


In that case, just have no lights and dress head to toe in black like a ninja and see how long you survive! :wink:

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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby Wanlock Dod » 20 Feb 2018, 1:30pm

robing wrote:...just have no lights and dress head to toe in black like a ninja and see how long you survive! :wink:

I don't think I've ever seen any evidence that suggests that unlit cyclists are more at risk when its dark, although I am aware of a theory that suggests that putting a red light on your bike might make you a target.
Be safe, be seen kids :(

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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby mjr » 20 Feb 2018, 3:23pm

robing wrote:
mjr wrote:
Bowak wrote:I don't give a monkeys' about drivers respecting me - I care about maximising the chances of them seeing me and not hitting me.

Then help CUK campaign for road justice.

The catalogue of hi viz emergency vehicles with blue lights on getting crashed into suggests this isn't a winning tactic. The main thing it achieves is another small step of making cycling even more unusual, that such outlandish costumery doesn't fail the laugh test, disadvantaging yourself and every other rider and non rider by reducing the safety in numbers effect.


In that case, just have no lights and dress head to toe in black like a ninja and see how long you survive! :wink:

I use a front light to see, a rear light mainly to avoid police attention (the divisional HQ is on my route to town and police cars often drive my street) and because even legal lights are cheap, but I wear whatever I wear and I'm still here. The only time I ever had the notorious SMIDSY said to me was during the few years I wore hi-viz, which is part of why that stuff is a counterintuitive dangerous nuisance.

Anyway, lights on the bike, not our naffing heads!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Mick F
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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby Mick F » 20 Feb 2018, 3:40pm

mjr wrote:Anyway, lights on the bike, not our naffing heads!
Yep. :D
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Feb 2018, 6:02pm

As a motorist, I have to say I find helmet mounted lights do grab the attention.

As a cyclist I like the ability to direct light at the motorist you want to see you, e.g. at traffic waiting to enter a roundabout.

To these ends I use one of these, which are excellent; I don't like the idea of helmet integrated lights as a light failure causes helmet to be binned and vice versa.

https://exposurelights.com/bike/combo-l ... -daybright

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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby mjr » 20 Feb 2018, 8:15pm

BrianFox wrote:As a motorist, I have to say I find helmet mounted lights do grab the attention.

As a cyclist I like the ability to direct light at the motorist you want to see you, e.g. at traffic waiting to enter a roundabout.

To these ends I use one of these, which are excellent; I don't like the idea of helmet integrated lights as a light failure causes helmet to be binned and vice versa.

Interesting and valid reason against the likes of lumass.

As a motorist, I don't want my attention grabbed unless you're an emergency vehicle, you selfish fool.

As a cyclist, I find turning my handlebars directs my headlight and the beamis wide enough for motorists on all but the widest cycling-hostileist roundabouts because it's a proper headlight not a remarketed torch like so many UK cyclists use.
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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Feb 2018, 8:25pm

As a motorist, I don't want my attention grabbed unless you're an emergency vehicle, you selfish fool.


As a cyclist once hospitalised after being t- boned by a smidsy I'd respectfully disagree with you.

I'm not sure if your "selfish fool " epithet is aimed at me; if it is, I've no idea what purpose you think it serves.

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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby mjr » 20 Feb 2018, 8:30pm

BrianFox wrote:
As a motorist, I don't want my attention grabbed unless you're an emergency vehicle, you selfish fool.


As a cyclist once hospitalised after being t- boned by a smidsy I'd respectfully disagree with you.

This isn't the first time you mentioned that, but I didn't find anything to suggest it was because you were under-lit. Care to explain how you think a directable hat light would have prevented it when whatever you were doing didn't? Isn't it rather more likely that the motorist wasn't looking properly?
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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Feb 2018, 8:47pm

Ok, it was aimed at me. I'll leave you to it.

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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby mjr » 20 Feb 2018, 9:13pm

Another instance of the selfishness...
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Re: Helmets with built in lights

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Feb 2018, 9:17pm

With my motorist hat on - I have several flat caps - I don't think my awareness of riders at roundabouts is in any way increased by being dazzled by having a bright light shone in my eyes. I have a very clear memory of waiting to enter a roundabout because of a cyclist riding across that entry with a bright flashing helmet-mounted light aimed directly in my eyes while he flogged away in an absurdly low gear, travelling at little more than walking speed. My immense concern for the problems faced by cyclists includes the experience of having been knocked off at a roundabout myself but if I could have vaporised that inconsiderate idiot with a death ray I'd have done so. And that was several years ago. :evil: