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Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 11:00am
by The utility cyclist
what we all knew.
Changes in participation, demographics and hazard associated with mandatory bicycle helmets in New South Wales, Australia
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0517306576
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 12:29pm
by mjr
Interesting conclusion. Thanks for sharing. "That bicycle helmets have prevented some fatalities and reduced some injuries is not disputed. However, the factors mentioned above are able to explain most or all of the observed reductions in fatalities and provide a better explanation of the pattern of those reductions than mandatory helmet legislation" - where the factors are primarily other road danger reduction measures, including "mobile speed cameras, random breath testing, and “black spot” remediation", new cycleways away from roads, participation decline and that decline being largest amongst the under-20s, who died most often before the law.
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 2:02pm
by pjclinch
For some values of useless, that is. You do need to be careful to put in a bit of context, or people just have an excuse to ignore you. For example, the spec of a helmet suggests that you might reasonably expect to be saved a nasty bump, graze and headache in some cases, and that's not "useless", especially if you're e.g. often bashing branches aside on singletrack.
And another thing you need to be very wary of is selective cherry-picking. "Ah, here's a paper that says what I'd like to hear, that's case closed!" It doesn't work to "prove" helmets are useful, and it doesn't work to prove that they're useless. Getting published in peer review is not the end of the argument, it's the beginning of the discussion.
Not that I disagree with this paper, but saying it confirms that helmets are useless is at best rather naive.
Pete.
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 3:02pm
by De Sisti
mjr wrote:Interesting conclusion. Thanks for sharing. "That bicycle helmets have prevented some fatalities .....
For that to be the case you'd surely have to have the same accident under the exact same circumstances
with and without a helmet for it to be true; otherwise it's just pure supposition.
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 3:29pm
by pjclinch
De Sisti wrote:mjr wrote:Interesting conclusion. Thanks for sharing. "That bicycle helmets have prevented some fatalities .....
For that to be the case you'd surely have to have the same accident under the exact same circumstances
with and without a helmet for it to be true; otherwise it's just pure supposition.
I suspect it's at least in part a psychological nod to people who've invested a lot of faith in helmets and don't want to be told they've been completely misguided.
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 4:11pm
by NATURAL ANKLING
Hi,
In my local paper this week-
"A helmet most certainly" prevented serious injury. (local cycle race on tarmac)
"A seat belt saved their life highly probable" (Road collision)
Not my words but the papers (IIRC, similar to the words I have used without getting my paper from other room).
In industry you will see time again even challenge media type construction programs with so called experts, flaunting regulation standards in safety, that any real time served tradesman would cringe at.
You pays your money and takes your choice.............just don't try and change others opinions / choice of habits
Imagine suggesting some one to do something and then them having that one time freak collision....................
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 4:16pm
by Mike Sales
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Imagine suggesting some one to do something and then them having that one time freak collision....................
And they die in spite of their helmet!
Wouldn't you worry that all the propaganda had made them feel safer than warranted?
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 4:34pm
by mjr
De Sisti wrote:mjr wrote:Interesting conclusion. Thanks for sharing. "That bicycle helmets have prevented some fatalities .....
For that to be the case you'd surely have to have the same accident under the exact same circumstances
with and without a helmet for it to be true; otherwise it's just pure supposition.
You've cut that mid-sentence! It merely notes that it's not disputed in this paper. It does not say they agree with it! And despite not challenging that claim, they still find other factors explain the change in casualty data.
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 4:45pm
by NATURAL ANKLING
Hi,
Mike Sales wrote:NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Imagine suggesting some one to do something and then them having that one time freak collision....................
And they die in spite of their helmet!
Wouldn't you worry that all the propaganda had made them feel safer than warranted?
Whose fault is it that some one dies despite wearing a helmet and then ride through red lights...............
We have two arguments here of age and under age, if you are old enough your choice if not then its a matter for some one at the top to make firm decisions on clear advise.
I think we can all agree that no one has the sense or balls to take charge of the situation.
But there are many other parts of our children's care / education that is failing, I just wish that children who are under age were not used like pawns by the media in all situations not just helmets.
I don't have the answer.
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 6:55pm
by Wanlock Dod
Lemon wrote:That bicycle helmets have prevented some fatalities and reduced some injuries is not disputed. However, the factors mentioned
above are able to explain most or all of the observed reductions in fatalities and provide a better explanation of the pattern of those
reductions than mandatory helmet legislation.
Or to rephrase without fear of loss of future research funding:
Regardless of any protective effects that helmets might have, other factors are better able to explain the observed reduction in injuries.
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 7:03pm
by Cunobelin
I still want to see the research proving how effective helmets are for pedestrians
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 7:10pm
by pjclinch
Cunobelin wrote:I still want to see the research proving how effective helmets are for pedestrians
IIRC someone in Japan did do an experiment with pedestrian helmets... <quick Google> . Ah,
here we go!
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 9 Apr 2018, 8:43pm
by Cyril Haearn
pjclinch wrote:Cunobelin wrote:I still want to see the research proving how effective helmets are for pedestrians
IIRC someone in Japan did do an experiment with pedestrian helmets... <quick Google> . Ah,
here we go!
And how effective they are for motorists of course
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 10 Apr 2018, 6:44am
by Mick F
Cyril Haearn wrote:pjclinch wrote:Cunobelin wrote:I still want to see the research proving how effective helmets are for pedestrians
IIRC someone in Japan did do an experiment with pedestrian helmets... <quick Google> . Ah,
here we go!
And how effective they are for motorists of course
- helmet_causes.jpg (16.67 KiB) Viewed 918 times
Re: Confirmed, helmets are useless and decrease cycling safety & participation
Posted: 10 Apr 2018, 9:40am
by De Sisti
Mick F wrote:Cyril Haearn wrote:pjclinch wrote:IIRC someone in Japan did do an experiment with pedestrian helmets... <quick Google> . Ah,
here we go!
And how effective they are for motorists of course
helmet_causes.jpg
https://www.nbt.nhs.uk/our-services/a-z ... -unit-hituA colleague's mother was in this unit (
suffered a fall at home). She
(colleague) told me that many of the
paitients on the ward were there due to head trauma suffered in motor vehicle accidents
(she was told this
by the medical staff).