Geraint Thomas....

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philg
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby philg » 30 Aug 2018, 10:30am

pwa wrote: But I can list several likely factors.

One is my history, prior to that time, of falling off bikes. I spent my childhood falling off things. I'd been lucky and not sustained serious injury, but the flying through the air awaiting impact sensation was familiar to me.

Secondly, of all my activities cycling was the one most likely to end up with me taking a tumble. I also did running, but I felt that a mishap while running had me already on my feet and better able to control things. On a bike if you tumble you have this metal frame tangled between your legs, making a controlled descent less likely. And you are likely to be going a bit faster.

Looking back, the tumbles that I remember best from the past couple of decades have mostly been on the bike. Not in a car, not walking. About half have been on ice. No warning, just bang and I'm on the ground, painfully.

That, by the way, has always been my intended function of a cycle helmet: to give the head a bit of protection if I tumble. I have never imagined it could fend off the Number 9 bus.

Thirdly, I'm always open to the idea of PPE if it is easy to use and doesn't get in the way. I will put on gardening gloves to bundle rose clippings into the compost.

If anyone looks at me and interprets my cycle helmet as me feeling that cycling is particularly dangerous, they are wrong. It has its dangers, but so do many things I do. PPE, to me, is ordinary. It is not used just for alarmingly dangerous activities. It is as ordinary as putting on Marigold gloves to do something with bleach.


^ A posting refreshingly free of dogma :) and summarises my view, helmets = few benefits, less drawbacks and miniscule inconvenience.

I'll add chain snapping whilst standing full effort on the pedals for no-warning tumbles - ice falls only cracked a few ribs; chain snap, with added impetus, added a collarbone and a 2" crack along the side of the helmet. I probably wouldn't have died, I'd certainly have had a sore head and a fair chance of a fractured cheek bone. TBH just the ribs & collarbone were enough for me.

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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby Mick F » 30 Aug 2018, 3:38pm

We know someone locally.

He fell off everything as a kid. He was always in scrapes and accidents. He fell off bikes, then motorbikes, he crashed his cars. He's just like that! Nice chap too.

Latterly, he fell off his motorbike and now has a new leg from the upper thigh down ................. but still rides a motorbike. He has to be careful these days! :lol:

BTW, he never banged his head, just the rest of his body.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby pjclinch » 30 Aug 2018, 7:11pm

pwa wrote:I'll have to think about that. Bearing in mind that my use of cycle helmets started in 1987, I can't remember with absolute clarity what led me to it. But I can list several likely factors.

<snip>

Thirdly, I'm always open to the idea of PPE if it is easy to use and doesn't get in the way. I will put on gardening gloves to bundle rose clippings into the compost.


Not really an apt analogy. A caving helmet is a good analogy: it's for pretty much inevitable scrapes as opposed to fairly unlikely whacks. If you go caving without a helmet you have a good chance of a headache. If you bundle rose clippings without gloves you're quite likely to get a multitude of minor nicks. If you ride a bike without a helmet... you'll quite likely arrive at your destination without a helmet and that's it.

pwa wrote:If anyone looks at me and interprets my cycle helmet as me feeling that cycling is particularly dangerous, they are wrong. It has its dangers, but so do many things I do. PPE, to me, is ordinary. It is not used just for alarmingly dangerous activities. It is as ordinary as putting on Marigold gloves to do something with bleach.


Again, this use of PPE isn't really the same thing. Now, if you're riding along a poorly trimmed bit of singletrack with lots of the sort of overhanging branches you'd wear the gardening gloves to clear at a level ducking under would be hard, then you'd have a better match.

My own use of helmets dates back to '89, and coincided with my first Proper Bike. My old Raleigh had been nicked and armed with the insurance I went to EBC and splurged on a tourer with 12 (twelve!, count 'em) gears (indexed too, at least at the rear), toe clips and, errr, everything, and armed with a Proper Bike I wanted to graduate to being a Proper Cyclist. And in those days that was starting to mean using the new lightweight helmets. I became very much the sort of person I sigh at these days, confusing it being a good idea to do big rides in all sorts of special kit with it being a good idea to do any ride in all sorts of special kit.

It took some time after I really knew my reasoning to keep on wearing a lid didn't stack up that well. A trip to Amsterdam was about the end of it. What can go wrong in Amsterdam? Plenty if you're learning to use a back pedal brake for the first time with nothing up front and it's rush hour and you're starting an Central Station, just the sort of situation helmets are notionally for. Nobody was using them, but that's the culture there.

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Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby pwa » 30 Aug 2018, 7:21pm

pjclinch wrote:
pwa wrote:I'll have to think about that. Bearing in mind that my use of cycle helmets started in 1987, I can't remember with absolute clarity what led me to it. But I can list several likely factors.

<snip>

Thirdly, I'm always open to the idea of PPE if it is easy to use and doesn't get in the way. I will put on gardening gloves to bundle rose clippings into the compost.


Not really an apt analogy. A caving helmet is a good analogy: it's for pretty much inevitable scrapes as opposed to fairly unlikely whacks. If you go caving without a helmet you have a good chance of a headache. If you bundle rose clippings without gloves you're quite likely to get a multitude of minor nicks. If you ride a bike without a helmet... you'll quite likely arrive at your destination without a helmet and that's it.

pwa wrote:If anyone looks at me and interprets my cycle helmet as me feeling that cycling is particularly dangerous, they are wrong. It has its dangers, but so do many things I do. PPE, to me, is ordinary. It is not used just for alarmingly dangerous activities. It is as ordinary as putting on Marigold gloves to do something with bleach.


Again, this use of PPE isn't really the same thing. Now, if you're riding along a poorly trimmed bit of singletrack with lots of the sort of overhanging branches you'd wear the gardening gloves to clear at a level ducking under would be hard, then you'd have a better match.

My own use of helmets dates back to '89, and coincided with my first Proper Bike. My old Raleigh had been nicked and armed with the insurance I went to EBC and splurged on a tourer with 12 (twelve!, count 'em) gears (indexed too, at least at the rear), toe clips and, errr, everything, and armed with a Proper Bike I wanted to graduate to being a Proper Cyclist. And in those days that was starting to mean using the new lightweight helmets. I became very much the sort of person I sigh at these days, confusing it being a good idea to do big rides in all sorts of special kit with it being a good idea to do any ride in all sorts of special kit.

It took some time after I really knew my reasoning to keep on wearing a lid didn't stack up that well. A trip to Amsterdam was about the end of it. What can go wrong in Amsterdam? Plenty if you're learning to use a back pedal brake for the first time with nothing up front and it's rush hour and you're starting an Central Station, just the sort of situation helmets are notionally for. Nobody was using them, but that's the culture there.

Pete.

And that's how it stacks up for you, Pete, and it's fine by me. I'm comfortable with my own choice, which I now give very little if any thought to. I'll happily admit to that. Mostly I don't think about it these days. It isn't an issue. And if I met you on the road I would be far more interested in your bike and your intended route that what you do or don't put on your head. I'm happy with my choice and I'm happy with yours.

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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby mjr » 30 Aug 2018, 7:44pm

pjclinch wrote:If you bundle rose clippings without gloves you're quite likely to get a multitude of minor nicks.

I see you've slightly changed the analogy, but it remains foolish to wear gloves to clip roses because it makes your hands bigger and more likely to snag on a thorn and then the nature of the hooked thorns is you slide further on as you try to wriggle free and so scratch yourself. Rather like wearing something that makes your head bigger and more likely to snag on the ground...?
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby Vorpal » 30 Aug 2018, 8:16pm

mjr wrote:
pjclinch wrote:If you bundle rose clippings without gloves you're quite likely to get a multitude of minor nicks.

I see you've slightly changed the analogy, but it remains foolish to wear gloves to clip roses because it makes your hands bigger and more likely to snag on a thorn and then the nature of the hooked thorns is you slide further on as you try to wriggle free and so scratch yourself. Rather like wearing something that makes your head bigger and more likely to snag on the ground...?

It may be foolish to wear cloth or woven gloves, which will snag rose thorns, but I find that leather gloves are pretty effective to prevent getting pricked or nicked by rose thorns.
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby mjr » 30 Aug 2018, 8:27pm

Vorpal wrote:It may be foolish to wear cloth or woven gloves, which will snag rose thorns, but I find that leather gloves are pretty effective to prevent getting pricked or nicked by rose thorns.

You won't get pulled onto the thorn like cloth or acetate gloves, but it'll scratch the leather and you still have the same problem of bigger hands increasing how often you hit thorns. It really is better to prune roses bare-handed if you're reasonably careful. My hands shake something rotten and I'm still better ungloved.
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby reohn2 » 30 Aug 2018, 8:34pm

:oops: Just been to the walk in centre with an infected finger from cutting back Hawthorns on the L&L towpath.... ......without gloves.
Hmmm note to self,dont forget the leather gloves next time :(
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby mjr » 30 Aug 2018, 8:35pm

Hawthorns are an entirely more vicious matter!
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby irc » 30 Aug 2018, 8:38pm

pwa wrote:Looking back, the tumbles that I remember best from the past couple of decades have mostly been on the bike. Not in a car, not walking. About half have been on ice. No warning, just bang and I'm on the ground, painfully.


Which is why helmets should be a personal choice. With 50 odd years of cycling including 20+ years commuting and numerous tours I've hardly ever fallen off and never hurt myself in a fall. Why should I be forced to wear a helmet?

I deal with ice by avoiding it. A high ice risk and I either don't go out, walk, or take the car. Leaving aside a head injury risk I don't want to risk a life changing broken hip.

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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby mjr » 30 Aug 2018, 8:49pm

pwa wrote:Looking back, the tumbles that I remember best from the past couple of decades have mostly been on the bike. Not in a car, not walking. About half have been on ice. No warning, just bang and I'm on the ground, painfully.

So fit ice tyres instead of a helmet because all else is at risk from ice too, not only one's head.
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby meic » 30 Aug 2018, 9:47pm

Much as I like ice tyres and dislike helmets, I have to admit that wearing a helmet is a much, much lesser imposition than riding with ice tyres.
Except for the moments that you are actually on ice. :wink:
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby Vorpal » 30 Aug 2018, 10:20pm

mjr wrote:
Vorpal wrote:It may be foolish to wear cloth or woven gloves, which will snag rose thorns, but I find that leather gloves are pretty effective to prevent getting pricked or nicked by rose thorns.

You won't get pulled onto the thorn like cloth or acetate gloves, but it'll scratch the leather and you still have the same problem of bigger hands increasing how often you hit thorns. It really is better to prune roses bare-handed if you're reasonably careful. My hands shake something rotten and I'm still better ungloved.

I have tried to prune roses without gloves, and I always end up bleeding. You are welcome to do it without, but not me, thanks.
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 31 Aug 2018, 12:13am

Hi,
G prunes rose bushes :P

I have been using knives al my life, today I had gloves on but still managed to draw blood :?
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Re: Geraint Thomas....

Postby bovlomov » 31 Aug 2018, 7:46am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:G prunes rose bushes

For the record, Geraint Thomas wears gloves while pruning his rose bushes, but he hasn't given the subject much thought and was unaware of the 'gloves/no gloves' debate.