Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

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martinn
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Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby martinn » 23 Sep 2018, 3:52pm

Hi all

Had an "interesting" experience yesterday.

I have had two similar accidents, one with and one without a helmet
Different bikes, and the second accident was of a higher speed than the first.
Both involved having the front wheel slide from underneath me, resulting in my side hitting the ground.
Damage to bikes similar, damage to me probably higher on the second incident.
In the first I was wearing a helmet, my head hit the ground.
In the second, no helmet, and I felt that I was keeping my head from hitting the ground. No head impact.
No evidence to suggest in the first I would not have hit my head if I wasn't wearing a helmet, but I was intrigued, that what happened in the second incident, has been described by others.

Martin

brynpoeth
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby brynpoeth » 23 Sep 2018, 3:59pm

Of course, a h****t makes your head bigger, imagine lying or sliding on your shoulder on the ground, without a h****t your head would clear the kerb, with one the h might catch the kerb and wrench your head/spine. A bare head is a smaller target and harder to hit, right?
..
Alternative facts welcome
..
Was excess speed the cause of both "accidents"?
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Phil Fouracre
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby Phil Fouracre » 23 Sep 2018, 4:00pm

Well, there you go then, no more proof needed :-) :-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

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Mick F
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby Mick F » 23 Sep 2018, 4:11pm

I've had a few spills over the years, and the latter one was rather awful.
Some have been with a lid, but most without. The latter one was with a lid. Injuries to left thigh and left arm.

None ever - after cycling for 60years or more - has ever had my head hitting the ground, even when I've been wearing a lid.
Only injuries above the shoulders has been my chin - and that was when I was 10years old.
Mick F. Cornwall

martinn
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby martinn » 23 Sep 2018, 7:48pm

To be honest, probably braking, certainly the first, cycle path which was wet and leafy, and I turned and braked at the same time ( front brake). The second was a lane, leafy and wet, and I braked on the straight. I did have a little brake fade earlier, so I may have grabbed more brake than I needed, but I can't really remember. I was off and on my back so fast.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 23 Sep 2018, 8:38pm

HI,
Well would you rather be wearing a helmet or not When your head hits the tarmac?

Can you in all certainty say that the next time you fall off your head will not hit the ground?

Some statistics if you can.
We will never know till we fall off will we.
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

Steady rider
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby Steady rider » 24 Sep 2018, 7:10pm

Robinson 1996 detailed the incidence of hitting their head/helmet in a cycling accident was "significantly higher for helmet wearers (8/30vs 13/476, i.e. 20% vs 2.7%, p 0.00001)". A bare head width of approximately 150mm may avoid contact compared to a helmeted head at approximately 200mm width. The combination of extra accidents, extra impacts and helmets easily breaking can probably add to the impression of a benefit from helmet use.


see page 22,
Evaluation of Australia's bicycle helmet laws, The Sports Science Summit, O2 venue London UK http://www.cycle-helmets.com/au-assessment-2015.pdf Presented 14 January 2015

landsurfer
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby landsurfer » 24 Sep 2018, 7:19pm

Without a helmet i seem to instinctively protect my head.
Hands out and use my arms.
Wearing a helmet i do not protect my head and try to roll my body .... I have noticed this in SK8, parachuting, motorcycling, mountaineering, kayaking.
Wearing a helmet i seem to ignore the self protection I exercise without a helmet ...

I mostly ride without a helmet .. i feel safer.
And the maths seem to add up.
Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right ... Carson.
The Road Goes On Forever ...

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 Sep 2018, 9:06pm

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brynpoeth
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby brynpoeth » 24 Sep 2018, 9:18pm

Why, that h****t can do a dozen unnecessary things before breakfast :wink:
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby The utility cyclist » 25 Sep 2018, 11:46am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:HI,
Well would you rather be wearing a helmet or not When your head hits the tarmac?

Can you in all certainty say that the next time you fall off your head will not hit the ground?

Some statistics if you can.
We will never know till we fall off will we.

I can say with absolute certainty that by putting something on my head that increases the size and weight significantly that that IF i were to come off my bike my head would have a far greater chance of being struck/striking something than if I were not wearing something. This is an undeniable fact. What also we can say with certainty and proven in study after study, particularly in competitive scenarios and those with lesser understanding of boundaries/hazards, those who race/faux race and children respectively, is that they will overall take a significant greater risk whilst wearing a protective aid compared to those that don't. We know for certain that motorists do exactly the same thing when they have a 'safety' aid adorned directly on their person or within an ever greater cocoon, in fact buying preferences are slanted by these aids and targeted by marketeers.

We do know with certainty that in contact sports headgear has been a massive failure to protect the participants and only encouraged greater risk taking and due to the inadequacies of the headgear that more injuries have occured. To the extreme you can compare gridiron to rugby, but also boxing who absolutely recognised the massive failure of headguards.

We have lots of certainties against wearing, there are no certainties in a positive sense to wearing helmets.
Based on logic, probability, known outcomes and how by wearing it has massively changed the onus of safety and from that had a massive detrimental effect not just on cycling itself but health and well being as a whole, to choose to wear a helmet is really ignorant of the certainties and illogically contributes to putting yourself at greater risk of harm. That IS a certainty!

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby Phil Fouracre » 25 Sep 2018, 12:34pm

+ 10 !!

Anyone else remember the saying years ago, that Volvo owners were the worst drivers, because their cars were considered the safest?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

brynpoeth
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby brynpoeth » 25 Sep 2018, 12:53pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:+ 10 !!

Anyone else remember the saying years ago, that Volvo owners were the worst drivers, because their cars were considered the safest?

Plusminus
Volvos were boring (and slow?) too back then, I always thought that was a good feature for a vehicle :wink:
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Phil Fouracre
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby Phil Fouracre » 25 Sep 2018, 7:17pm

Yup, good in that respect :-) heavy as well!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Warning anecdotal helmet comment!

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 26 Sep 2018, 1:16am

Hi,
So in short I choose to wear a helmet.
So I am at higher risk than those who choose not to.

But I like wearing my helmet, so for my wellbeing I will continue to wear one.
And in my mind I will feel less safe no helmet, albeit small but larger than the wearing a helmet is more dangerous because its bigger and heavier.

On my personal stats I have hit my head once and been incapacitated as well that time by another part of my body hitting ground wearing a helmet.
My only other injury on a bicycle was 43 years ago, hit by a car door handle on my upper leg where I fell off at speed, no helmet no other injuries at that time.

The only certainty is that you can not say how and when your next fall / collision will be, and what hits what first.
My choice and I don't force my helmet wearing opinions either, in the end its a personal decision.
A bit like oval chain rings :)
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..