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Re: All had helmets

Posted: 31 May 2019, 8:57pm
by landsurfer
When we rode our LEJOG last June i was one of a small number of non helmet wearers at the start .. as the ride progressed a few more comrades gave up the helmet ... Approx 9000 miles ridden without an incident that would have been assisted by a helmet .....

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 31 May 2019, 9:16pm
by mjr
Mike Sales wrote:
mjr wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:This is by observation.
Club cyclists wear plastic.
Nice middle class greens on hybrids wear plastic.
Tourists wear plastic.
Commuters wear plastic.

Ok on club cyclists. Only a minority of the rest do here. Only crazy British tourists do. And the Americans but there are few of them.


Not what I see.

That's the beauty of anecdotes. I'm not saying anything about what you saw, just what I see.

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 31 May 2019, 9:23pm
by mjr
Oldjohnw wrote:Is there any reason why folk simply don't just live and let live? Some wear helmets, believing they are beneficial whilst others take the opposite view. Why not each to their own?

Because the current low usage is one of the things that has discouraged UK governments from enacting a helmet law, so each user is effectively voting with their head to take away other cyclists' freedom and hinder cycling becoming mass transport.

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 31 May 2019, 9:35pm
by RickH
Oldjohnw wrote:Is there any reason why folk simply don't just live and let live? Some wear helmets, believing they are beneficial whilst others take the opposite view. Why not each to their own?

Why not?

Because of the continual tut-tutting and "why aren't you wearing a helmet" comments when you choose not to!

As a resident of the Greater Manchester Region (as it seems to be referred to these days) my risk of being a victim of knife crime is probably similar to my risk of injury while cycling (I had a look at the numbers but haven't done a detailed analysis). If I advocated the routine wearing of a stab vest because of the miniscule risk in all but a few "outlier" circumstances I would be ridiculed. Why is the reverse situation a problem for many people?

Mostly I try not to bother about it but, in my more militant moments, I think that helmets, & Hi-Vis too, Dangerify (if I may make up a word) the perception of cycling (& give people who don't want to do it an excuse not to).

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 1 Jun 2019, 5:21am
by Oldjohnw
Because of the continual tut-tutting and "why aren't you wearing a helmet" comments when you choose not to!


This makes my point: why can't these people - and those with opposing views - just live and let live? This is my approach and I don't get the trouble others seem to constantly walk into. Apart from Mrs ojw, that is.

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 1 Jun 2019, 5:29am
by Cyril Haearn
What trouble do you have with Mrsojw? I think you mentioned that she insists you wear a h*****t. Does she cycle?

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 1 Jun 2019, 5:50am
by Oldjohnw
Cyril Haearn wrote:What trouble do you have with Mrsojw? I think you mentioned that she insists you wear a h*****t. Does she cycle?


My comment was slightly tongue in cheek. She used to cycle a little but an injury to her back (whilst cycling) ended that. She is of a nervous disposition and, depending where I am cycling, wants me to wear a lid. I do like a peaceful life.

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 1 Jun 2019, 7:54am
by Cyril Haearn
mattheus wrote:I've been watching some World Cup cricket games. Most of the time, only 3 of the 15 people on pitch are wearing helmets.

Have you seen how fast the ball travels, and how hard it is?? I'd want an "I've been brave" sticker just for fielding in slip!

Terrifying, how much slower is the ball after the batsperson has hit it? I would be much too scared to play cricket but I do follow and read about it, for 'life is an elaborate metaphor for cricket'

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 3 Jun 2019, 9:51am
by mattheus
Oldjohnw wrote:
Because of the continual tut-tutting and "why aren't you wearing a helmet" comments when you choose not to!


This makes my point: why can't these people - and those with opposing views - just live and let live? This is my approach and I don't get the trouble others seem to constantly walk into. Apart from Mrs ojw, that is.


You seem to be implying that one doesn't get lectured on helmets if one chooses to keep out of trouble.

My experience is that these comments come completely unsolicited e.g. a colleague just has to see you riding to work to justify a lecture. And I've been shouted at by overtaking cyclists (again, completely unsolicited).

Do you think I'm mistaken? Do you think those you refer to (in bold above) have sought out this "trouble"?

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 3 Jun 2019, 10:44am
by Oldjohnw
mattheus wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
Because of the continual tut-tutting and "why aren't you wearing a helmet" comments when you choose not to!


This makes my point: why can't these people - and those with opposing views - just live and let live? This is my approach and I don't get the trouble others seem to constantly walk into. Apart from Mrs ojw, that is.


You seem to be implying that one doesn't get lectured on helmets if one chooses to keep out of trouble.

My experience is that these comments come completely unsolicited e.g. a colleague just has to see you riding to work to justify a lecture. And I've been shouted at by overtaking cyclists (again, completely unsolicited).

Do you think I'm mistaken? Do you think those you refer to (in bold above) have sought out this "trouble"?


I was just relaying my experience: I do not say others have sought out trouble. Merely observe their own tales of being given a hard time, whatever the cause may be. For that matter, I don't know why these cyclist harassers can't just let non-helmet wearing cyclists just get on with their lives: people make their own risk assessment and live with the consequences.

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 3 Jun 2019, 10:48am
by Mike Sales
mattheus wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
Because of the continual tut-tutting and "why aren't you wearing a helmet" comments when you choose not to!


This makes my point: why can't these people - and those with opposing views - just live and let live? This is my approach and I don't get the trouble others seem to constantly walk into. Apart from Mrs ojw, that is.


You seem to be implying that one doesn't get lectured on helmets if one chooses to keep out of trouble.

My experience is that these comments come completely unsolicited e.g. a colleague just has to see you riding to work to justify a lecture. And I've been shouted at by overtaking cyclists (again, completely unsolicited).

Do you think I'm mistaken? Do you think those you refer to (in bold above) have sought out this "trouble"?


I don't think anyone will report "why are you wearing a helmet?" heckling. Perhaps I will be proved wrong.

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 3 Jun 2019, 11:23am
by Mike Sales
I remember a club mate saying, " you look good on that bike, Mike. You'd look better with a helmet, though." I replied, "no, I'd look daft like you."

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 3 Jun 2019, 12:09pm
by Cugel
Oldjohnw wrote:
mattheus wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
This makes my point: why can't these people - and those with opposing views - just live and let live? This is my approach and I don't get the trouble others seem to constantly walk into. Apart from Mrs ojw, that is.


You seem to be implying that one doesn't get lectured on helmets if one chooses to keep out of trouble.

My experience is that these comments come completely unsolicited e.g. a colleague just has to see you riding to work to justify a lecture. And I've been shouted at by overtaking cyclists (again, completely unsolicited).

Do you think I'm mistaken? Do you think those you refer to (in bold above) have sought out this "trouble"?


I was just relaying my experience: I do not say others have sought out trouble. Merely observe their own tales of being given a hard time, whatever the cause may be. For that matter, I don't know why these cyclist harassers can't just let non-helmet wearing cyclists just get on with their lives: people make their own risk assessment and live with the consequences.


Helmet zealots do pop up all over the place, in cycling circles and without. This is a boon to the likes of us, surely, as it gives a fine opportunity to rehearse the different viewpoints, inclusive of any relevant data, information, experience and so forth. Straight away we have an advantage! The zealot usually has no relevant data, information or experience! Perhaps they have a friend who had a friend who knew someone who might have opined that, "A helmet saved my life". :-)

Even the cycling club zealots turn out to mere advert or fashion victims, as a close questioning will reveal. Yes.

Just think of the helmet zealot as a Mormon proselytizer on your doorstep. Get them in and bamboozle their propositions with a bit of the Socratics. Free entertainment, not trouble, that.

Cugel

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 3 Jun 2019, 12:29pm
by mattheus
Cugel wrote:
Helmet zealots do pop up all over the place, in cycling circles and without. This is a boon to the likes of us, surely, as it gives a fine opportunity to rehearse the different viewpoints, inclusive of any relevant data, information, experience and so forth. Straight away we have an advantage! The zealot usually has no relevant data, information or experience! Perhaps they have a friend who had a friend who knew someone who might have opined that, "A helmet saved my life". :-)

Even the cycling club zealots turn out to mere advert or fashion victims, as a close questioning will reveal. Yes.

Just think of the helmet zealot as a Mormon proselytizer on your doorstep. Get them in and bamboozle their propositions with a bit of the Socratics. Free entertainment, not trouble, that.

Cugel

I admire your positive view on this Sir!

But I find a problem in such discussions;
our data, science and logic never seems to carry as much weight as
- their anecdote, (or friend-of-a-friend anecdote)
- alleged "common sense",
- repeated cries of "well, it's your head mate" and/or "do you want to live your life out as a vegetable??" etc etc ...

<sigh>

Re: All had helmets

Posted: 3 Jun 2019, 5:24pm
by Cugel
mattheus wrote:
Cugel wrote:
Helmet zealots do pop up all over the place, in cycling circles and without. This is a boon to the likes of us, surely, as it gives a fine opportunity to rehearse the different viewpoints, inclusive of any relevant data, information, experience and so forth. Straight away we have an advantage! The zealot usually has no relevant data, information or experience! Perhaps they have a friend who had a friend who knew someone who might have opined that, "A helmet saved my life". :-)

Even the cycling club zealots turn out to mere advert or fashion victims, as a close questioning will reveal. Yes.

Just think of the helmet zealot as a Mormon proselytizer on your doorstep. Get them in and bamboozle their propositions with a bit of the Socratics. Free entertainment, not trouble, that.

Cugel

I admire your positive view on this Sir!

But I find a problem in such discussions;
our data, science and logic never seems to carry as much weight as
- their anecdote, (or friend-of-a-friend anecdote)
- alleged "common sense",
- repeated cries of "well, it's your head mate" and/or "do you want to live your life out as a vegetable??" etc etc ...

<sigh>


At the time of the discussion agreements are rare, true. However, one gets the opportunity to insert the data, information, fact, study, statistic or other logic-seed, which may well take root in the brainbox of one's interlocutor. In time, they might find their helmet-zealot-weed notions displaced by a lovely no-helmet-needed hollyhock! On the other hand, weeds are vig'rous!

Anyway, if they get gnouty I insist they wear a large helmet when going up the stairs to bed; and when coming down; also in their chromebomb as they roar about in a careless fashion, that being all the rage (literally!) these days. Even when they disagree with this eminently logical (by their lights) suggestion, one can still get a feeling of pleasure at their hissing and fitting.

Cugel, a jolly meme gardener, yanking happily at notion-weeds.