helmets from Why wear black?

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
Mike Sales
Posts: 4427
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 15 Feb 2020, 9:32pm

horizon wrote:
You are right, they won't be banned, but it was a great suggestion and it deserved, IMV, a different response.


There is a better case for banning seat belts and all the other devices which make dangerous driving safer for those in cars.
After all, cyclist and pedestrian casualties increased as drivers became less vulnerable.

http://www.john-adams.co.uk/2013/03/24/the-biggest-lie/

User avatar
NUKe
Posts: 3828
Joined: 23 Apr 2007, 11:07pm
Location: Suffolk

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby NUKe » 15 Feb 2020, 11:41pm

You only have to remove one thing, the nut behind the wheel.
NUKe
_____________________________________

niggle
Posts: 3413
Joined: 11 Mar 2009, 10:29pm
Location: Cornwall, near England

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby niggle » 15 Feb 2020, 11:46pm

NUKe wrote:You only have to remove one thing, the nut behind the wheel.

Yup. Here is one way to do that: viewtopic.php?p=1444355#p1444336

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10141
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Feb 2020, 10:32am

Image

mattheus
Posts: 1542
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby mattheus » 16 Feb 2020, 10:43am

Careful! That will become a "strawman" before you know it :P

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10141
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Feb 2020, 12:19pm

mattheus wrote:Careful! That will become a "strawman" before you know it :P


What about a Wicker Man?



12 points and .....

Image

BlueRider
Posts: 80
Joined: 12 Dec 2019, 6:57pm

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby BlueRider » 17 Feb 2020, 8:09am

Ban helmets and hi vis?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:shock: Bonkers.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14996
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby mjr » 17 Feb 2020, 9:40am

mattheus wrote:Banning hi-viz (or helmets, or stab-vests, or anything else that is a little over-the-top, but doesn't directly harm anyone else) is
NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN in the UK. (fog lights are illegal in good vis, but no-one ever gets pulled for that! :P )

So Utility'Cs campaign is irrelevant. I suspect he's just grandstanding - there is a lot of sense in his views.

It is not IMO worth dwelling on, if anyone wants to actually have an open debate about road safety and rights.

I wouldn't be so sure it will never happen. Motorists aren't allowed to wear full F1 helmets and harnesses: they reduce injuries in a collision but the reduced visibility/mobility prevents good driving and increases crash risk. If someone discovers what negates the testable physical protection of cycle helmets and it's unsolvable and makes them a net harm, they may also be banned one day.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

mikeymo
Posts: 548
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby mikeymo » 17 Feb 2020, 9:45am

BlueRider wrote:Ban helmets and hi vis?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:shock: Bonkers.


If they were banned it would make it possible to have "population wide studies" into the effect of non helmet use.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 48200
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Mick F » 17 Feb 2020, 11:38am

mattheus wrote: ..........(fog lights are illegal in good vis, but no-one ever gets pulled for that! :P ) ...........
Oh yes they do.

A very good mate of mine was pulled over by the rozzers for fog lights on in good vis.
He received three penalty points and a £60 fine.
Mick F. Cornwall

Mike Sales
Posts: 4427
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 17 Feb 2020, 11:41am

mikeymo wrote:If they were banned it would make it possible to have "population wide studies" into the effect of non helmet use.


I think that the step change in Australia from about a third wearing to near one hundred percent gave us a good indication of efficacy.

fastpedaller
Posts: 2325
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby fastpedaller » 17 Feb 2020, 12:03pm

Mick F wrote:
mattheus wrote: ..........(fog lights are illegal in good vis, but no-one ever gets pulled for that! :P ) ...........
Oh yes they do.

A very good mate of mine was pulled over by the rozzers for fog lights on in good vis.
He received three penalty points and a £60 fine.

get less for knocking down a cyclist. What a crazy Country (World) we live in.

mikeymo
Posts: 548
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 6:23pm

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby mikeymo » 17 Feb 2020, 12:55pm

Mike Sales wrote:
mikeymo wrote:If they were banned it would make it possible to have "population wide studies" into the effect of non helmet use.


I think that the step change in Australia from about a third wearing to near one hundred percent gave us a good indication of efficacy.


Quite possibly, as this paper states so unambiguously:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0001457596000164?via%3Dihub

Her analysis of the New South Wales statistics especially is particularly robust, I'm sure you'll agree. Though I expect you've read the paper I link to above.

Still, it would be useful*, don't you think, to have a comparable study, or studies? At the moment we've got longitudinal studies where the situation changed from no MHL to MHL. We don't have the "no MHL to helmets being proscribed" studies. It would be interesting to see the various "suggestions" (what the epidemiologists might call confounding variables) as to the cause of any effect of helmets actually being banned.

*of course a change in the law purely for the purposes of doing a study wouldn't get past the ethics board. Or through parliament, I would hope.

User avatar
The utility cyclist
Posts: 2919
Joined: 22 Aug 2016, 12:28pm
Location: The first garden city

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby The utility cyclist » 18 Feb 2020, 1:47am

Those of us that don't/never have worn helmets are essentially the robust data that makes banning helmets a logical solution that should take the choice out of the populations hands. If you chuck in a ban on hi-vis then we know that will massively increase the amount of time police and government both locally and nationally will spend on looking elsewhere. Considering all the crimes plod must have resolved to be spending so much time and effort on handing out hi-vis and BS regarding helmets they can't have anything else to do so must have to then get onto the main problem of the roads because there's nowt else for them to resolve :roll:

That extra focus on motorists due to not spending time on harassing people on bikes will increase the safety of motorists, pedestrians, cyclists and equestrians.

So banning helmets is not just good for cyclists, it would also reduce the NHS bill by billions, reduce pollution, reduce the heartache for thousands of families, how can we not ban them, frankly it's socially irresponsible to wear them, and as CUK normalises the wearing of helmets and hi-vis with their continual displaying of helmets in their photos and events and by not condemning helmet wearing are also socially irresponsible and complicit.

User avatar
Cunobelin
Posts: 10141
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 18 Feb 2020, 6:31am

The utility cyclist wrote:Those of us that don't/never have worn helmets are essentially the robust data that makes banning helmets a logical solution that should take the choice out of the populations hands. If you chuck in a ban on hi-vis then we know that will massively increase the amount of time police and government both locally and nationally will spend on looking elsewhere. Considering all the crimes plod must have resolved to be spending so much time and effort on handing out hi-vis and BS regarding helmets they can't have anything else to do so must have to then get onto the main problem of the roads because there's nowt else for them to resolve :roll:

That extra focus on motorists due to not spending time on harassing people on bikes will increase the safety of motorists, pedestrians, cyclists and equestrians.

So banning helmets is not just good for cyclists, it would also reduce the NHS bill by billions, reduce pollution, reduce the heartache for thousands of families, how can we not ban them, frankly it's socially irresponsible to wear them, and as CUK normalises the wearing of helmets and hi-vis with their continual displaying of helmets in their photos and events and by not condemning helmet wearing are also socially irresponsible and complicit.


Potentially out of date, but Meyer Hillman's "Cycle helmet - Friend or Foe is an interesting read.