helmets from Why wear black?

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 12 Feb 2020, 6:06pm

BlueRider wrote:The argument here is that helmets don't help you in an accident

It would appear that helmets are only really helpful in survivable accidents, so they might prevent a bit of a sore head but are not saving lives. Personally I don't mind having a bit of a sore head every once in a while, it might remind me to take more care next time.

Do you think that cycle helmets have convinced non-cyclists that they can make cycling in Little Britain safe?

BlueRider
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby BlueRider » 12 Feb 2020, 6:10pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:
BlueRider wrote:The argument here is that helmets don't help you in an accident

It would appear that helmets are only really helpful in survivable accidents, so they might prevent a bit of a sore head but are not saving lives. Personally I don't mind having a bit of a sore head every once in a while, it might remind me to take more care next time.

Do you think that cycle helmets have convinced non-cyclists that they can make cycling in Little Britain safe?


Little Britain?

Good grief.

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2020, 7:48pm

BlueRider wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:BlueRider,
You recognise that the Dutch have implemented policies which actually reduce cycling casualties.
The Australians have a cyclist casualty rate at least twice ours. Their helmet law has forced nearly 100 per cent wearing. The cyclist casualty rate did not change for the better.
Helmets are not the answer


Dutch cycling statistics are of no use to me or my head if I come off my bike and bang my head.


What about if you trip on a loose slab and bang your head?

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2020, 7:55pm

BlueRider wrote:
Wanlock Dod wrote:
BlueRider wrote:No it isn't and i think it is irresponsible to peddle that misconception.
You are mixing up your causes and effects.

Would you care to expand on that, and provide evidence to support your assertions?


I have posted plenty of evidence and comment for that.

I assert that you (-ve helmets) are focussed on statistics and logic which only supports your position thathelmets are in actual fact a bad idea in an accident.

I (+ve helmets), have asserted that your statistics are simply just that and a relevent for law enforcement only. I have posted the Guardian report which does actually focus on the effects of helmets on head injuries, rather than the secondary/tertiary effects.

The nay sayers keep coming back and quote irrelevent statistics and whataboutery, but the simple fact remains that if you are going to hit your head off something, wearing a helmet is 99.9% of the time a better idea than not.

I asked earlier if the nay sayers would choose to have a helmet on or not during an actual head injury incident and i got more deflection and whataboutery.

As others have said, you don't seem to interested in facts or reason, only that helmets are cancer. I disagree. YMMV.


The classic..


If I quote something that is unequivocal if you quote it is nonsense....

The reply is simple.

Head injuries occur for a number of reasons and causes.

The question is valid!

If you have a head injury would you choose to wear a helmet to mitigate the injury

The question remains though.

Would the helmet mitigate injury in a toddler, pedestrian, jogger, someone climbing stairs

All you need to do is explain why these are irrelevant

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2020, 7:58pm

BlueRider wrote:A ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.


Absolutely -now is that true for a pedestrian walking home from the pub?

If not, why?

Given that 60% of head injuries are alcohol-related.... just think of how many head injuries could be prevented!

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2020, 8:03pm

BlueRider wrote:

Scenario: You are falling off your bike. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining a impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?



Scenario: You are a pedestrian who has tripped on their shoelace. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining an impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2020, 8:04pm

BlueRider wrote:

Scenario: You are falling off your bike. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining a impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?



Scenario: You are agetting into the bath, and slip...... You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining an impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2020, 8:05pm

BlueRider wrote:

Scenario: You are falling off your bike. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining a impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?



Scenario: You are a small child toddling around a room, and fall over. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining an impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2020, 8:06pm

BlueRider wrote:

Scenario: You are falling off your bike. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining a impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?



Scenario: You are an elderly, infirm person and misjudge your step. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining an impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2020, 8:08pm

BlueRider wrote:

Scenario: You are falling off your bike. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining a impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?


Get the idea.... this is simply a contrived justification that does not stand up to scrutiny

TO justify this argument, you need to explain why it is not equally valid for all the above scenarios

BlueRider
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby BlueRider » 12 Feb 2020, 8:28pm

Time to move on from this I think.

Have fun and be safe!

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 12 Feb 2020, 11:06pm

broadway wrote:Are you sure that there's that much grass?

I’m not sure that a couple of pictures gives a very accurate representation of Dutch cycling facilities countrywide. They certainly recognise the benefit of some space between busy roads with fast moving traffic and cyclists, and to be honest a bit of grass beside a cycle path isn’t all that uncommon even in some relatively urban areas where there is space in my experience. Although I have to admit that I don’t tend to spend all that much time in cities when I’m cycling there, they are so quick and easy to pass through with good, safe, and direct routes that it is easy to reach the countryside.

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 12 Feb 2020, 11:09pm

BlueRider wrote:... I asked earlier ... and i got more deflection and whataboutery...

:roll:

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Feb 2020, 6:28am

BlueRider wrote:Time to move on from this I think.

Have fun and be safe!



The reply to that is:

BlueRider wrote:Which is still not an answer to my simple question

mattheus
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby mattheus » 13 Feb 2020, 10:20am

Mike Sales wrote:
BlueRider wrote:You have missed your vocation as an interrogator.
Still not answering the simple question in a simple and striaght forward manner huh?

Ok,

Scenario: You are falling off your bike. You know not the speed, or circumstance, but you will be sustaining a impact to the head. You have the following options at this point:

A) Wearing a helmet
B) Not wearing a helmet.


Which option would you choose?


When you have got your teeth into the wrong end of the stick you don't like to let go, do you.

:mrgreen:

The scenario is, of course, impossible, but as Bluerider asks so nicely I'll give ANOTHER honest answer:

I'd like a big plump cushion between my head and the hard surface.