helmets from Why wear black?

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
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mjr
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 2:00pm

BlueRider wrote:Because helmets don't protect against serious injury or death as has been discussed to death in the last dozen or so pages....

If you are only concerned with minor injuries, a thick merino beanie will provide greater protection to a larger proportion of the head at lower monetary and environmental cost, without the drawback of obstructing hearing or visibility.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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mjr
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 2:02pm

BlueRider wrote:
mjr wrote:There is no article. I simply plotted the cycle helmet usage rates for various years from the European Traffic Safety Council (ETSC) Public Information Note against cyclist injury rates from the Reported Road Casualties of Great Britain (RRCGB) data for the same years. I'm sure the contexts of these datasets are familiar to someone who has assessed the risk reduction from helmet usage, or lack thereof. They are both imperfect and the strongest we currently have.


"I made it up"

:roll:

No, the numbers are all real. I just posted a picture I drew way back when I was re-evaluating my helmet assumptions after being challenged by pjclinch and others, because you seem not to understand the data that's out there. DIY and see what you get, if you prefer.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Mike Sales
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 6 Feb 2020, 2:05pm

BlueRider wrote:
Simple question: in a cycling accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?


You demonstrate a lack of understanding of risk homeostasis.

Perhaps a reading of Risk UCL Press by John Adams would help, or perhaps not.

It is available online free.

http://www.john-adams.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/RISK-BOOK.pdf

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mjr
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby mjr » 6 Feb 2020, 2:11pm

Mike Sales wrote:
BlueRider wrote:
Simple question: in a cycling accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?


You demonstrate a lack of understanding of risk homeostasis.

And of the effect of a much larger potential impact area.

Ask a different question: if you crash and are going to hit the ground with the first/hardest impact on part of your body almost at random, would you personally rather make your head a bigger/heavier target or not?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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BlueRider
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby BlueRider » 6 Feb 2020, 2:24pm

mjr wrote:
BlueRider wrote:
mjr wrote:There is no article. I simply plotted the cycle helmet usage rates for various years from the European Traffic Safety Council (ETSC) Public Information Note against cyclist injury rates from the Reported Road Casualties of Great Britain (RRCGB) data for the same years. I'm sure the contexts of these datasets are familiar to someone who has assessed the risk reduction from helmet usage, or lack thereof. They are both imperfect and the strongest we currently have.


"I made it up"

:roll:

No, the numbers are all real. I just posted a picture I drew way back when I was re-evaluating my helmet assumptions after being challenged by pjclinch and others, because you seem not to understand the data that's out there. DIY and see what you get, if you prefer.


No, without context, just drawing lines on a piece of paper means nothing. :?

mattheus
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby mattheus » 6 Feb 2020, 2:38pm

BlueRider wrote:Well, at least we have given up on the pretence that either Hi vis or helmets are useless :D

Do you mean posting references to research that shows helmets are very probably useless for preventing TBIs?

mikeymo
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby mikeymo » 6 Feb 2020, 11:50pm

Surprising that nobody's linked to the Singaporean study comparing head injuries before and after the wearing of cycling helmets was made illegal.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 7 Feb 2020, 6:07am

BlueRider wrote:
Simple question: in a cycling accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?


Simple question: in a jogging accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a car accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a walking accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a playground accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?

The problem with your flawed statement is that it only appears to matters r to cyclists
Why do you find a similar accident, and a similar outcome in other groups acceptable?

Do they hurt less, are the outcomes better ?

I would be really interested in your justification.

BlueRider
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby BlueRider » 7 Feb 2020, 8:11am

mikeymo wrote:Surprising that nobody's linked to the Singaporean study comparing head injuries before and after the wearing of cycling helmets was made illegal.


Do you have it?

Mike Sales
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 7 Feb 2020, 8:15am

BlueRider wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
BlueRider wrote:
Simple question: in a cycling accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?


Simple question: in a jogging accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a car accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a walking accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a playground accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?

The problem with your flawed statement is that it only appears to matters r to cyclists
Why do you find a similar accident, and a similar outcome in other groups acceptable?

Do they hurt less, are the outcomes better ?

I would be really interested in your justification.


Meaningless whataboutery.


So you have no answers? Come on, these are simple questions. Their meanings are clear.

BlueRider
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helmets from Why wear black?

Postby BlueRider » 7 Feb 2020, 8:19am

Mike Sales wrote:
BlueRider wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Simple question: in a jogging accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a car accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a walking accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?
Simple question: in a playground accident involving the head, would you personally rather be wearing a helmet or not?

The problem with your flawed statement is that it only appears to matters r to cyclists
Why do you find a similar accident, and a similar outcome in other groups acceptable?

Do they hurt less, are the outcomes better ?

I would be really interested in your justification.


Meaningless whataboutery.


So you have no answers? Come on, these are simple questions. Their meanings are clear.



For any head injury, I would always want to wear a helmet. Why on earth wouldn't You?

Oh, wait, you guys think they make head injuries worse lol :roll:

mikeymo
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby mikeymo » 7 Feb 2020, 8:23am

BlueRider wrote:
mikeymo wrote:Surprising that nobody's linked to the Singaporean study comparing head injuries before and after the wearing of cycling helmets was made illegal.


Do you have it?


I can't find the link just now, sorry. I'll see if I can dig it out. As I said, I was just surprised that nobody mentioned what happened when helmets were actually banned.

Mike Sales
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 7 Feb 2020, 8:26am

BlueRider wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
BlueRider wrote:
Meaningless whataboutery.


So you have no answers? Come on, these are simple questions. Their meanings are clear.



For any head injury, I would always want to wear a helmet. Why on earth wouldn't You?

Oh, wait, you guys think they make head injuries worse lol :roll:


We are asking you, who thinks helmets work.
Can we assume then, that you wear your helmet in your car, when jogging or walking? Stairs and baths are known to cause head injuries too. Do you wear a helmet indoors?
A car helmet could be usefully strongly made too.

Mike Sales
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 7 Feb 2020, 8:28am

mikeymo wrote:
BlueRider wrote:
mikeymo wrote:Surprising that nobody's linked to the Singaporean study comparing head injuries before and after the wearing of cycling helmets was made illegal.


Do you have it?


I can't find the link just now, sorry. I'll see if I can dig it out. As I said, I was just surprised that nobody mentioned what happened when helmets were actually banned.


I had never heard of it, or even that Singapore had banned them, which is surprising.
Perhaps it is a ban on wearing full face helmets into banks and shops etc.?

mikeymo
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Re: Why wear black?

Postby mikeymo » 7 Feb 2020, 8:32am

Mike Sales wrote:
mikeymo wrote:
BlueRider wrote:
Do you have it?


I can't find the link just now, sorry. I'll see if I can dig it out. As I said, I was just surprised that nobody mentioned what happened when helmets were actually banned.


I had never heard of it, or even that Singapore had banned them, which is surprising.


Yes, it is surprising, isn't it? That's because I lied.

Perhaps my point is made.