helmets from Why wear black?

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
Smudgerii
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Smudgerii » 21 Feb 2020, 10:20pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:Because....?


The right for an individual to make informed choices is basic.

Granted as a parent and now grandparent I have had to make choices for others, that is part of the role, but if you educate at the same time then your role diminishes much sooner.

Dictating to others removes not only freedom of choice but also freedom itself. The caveat to this is, certain things cannot be left to freedom of choice and must be legislated for. Gun control being one example ( lost my handgun to the understandable ban ).

reohn2
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby reohn2 » 21 Feb 2020, 11:01pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:Given that as far as I can tell an awful lot of kids aren’t allowed to cycle anyway.......

Why do you think that might be?

One of the most pleasant experiences I've had cycling was arriving at a cross river ferry in NL and shortly after boarding(we were early)seeing approximately 40 children and teenagers from 10 to 17 arriving in groups of 5 to 10 on bikes and board,all wearing normal clothes and not a helmet is sight.
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 22 Feb 2020, 7:30am

Indeed, kids in The Netherlands have real freedom, whereas kids in Little Britain have freedom of choice rather than freedom itself. It is no wonder that kids in The Netherlands are some of the happiest in the world.

Oldjohnw
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Oldjohnw » 22 Feb 2020, 7:50am

Wanlock Dod wrote:Indeed, kids in The Netherlands have real freedom, whereas kids in Little Britain have freedom of choice rather than freedom itself. It is no wonder that kids in The Netherlands are some of the happiest in the world.



So are helmets etc banned in the Netherlands?
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 22 Feb 2020, 8:13am

My point here is that freedom of choice becomes far less relevant when real freedom is not restricted.

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Cunobelin
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 22 Feb 2020, 8:54am

Wanlock Dod wrote:My point here is that freedom of choice becomes far less relevant when real freedom is not restricted.


Define "real freedom"

reohn2
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Feb 2020, 9:12am

Wanlock Dod wrote:Indeed, kids in The Netherlands have real freedom, whereas kids in Little Britain have freedom of choice rather than freedom itself. It is no wonder that kids in The Netherlands are some of the happiest in the world.

In NL the infrastructure is in place for cycling to flourish unhindered.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Oldjohnw » 22 Feb 2020, 9:15am

Still trying to get my head around this strategy.

Not enough children ride bikes, possibly/probably because of parental perception of danger.

So ban helmets etc, which is often the parental perception of reducing danger. And somehow expect more children to ride bikes.
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Vorpal » 22 Feb 2020, 9:27am

Kids in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have freedom, as well. That's not solely due to infrastructure. But it sure helps.
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reohn2
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Feb 2020, 10:17am

Vorpal wrote:Kids in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have freedom, as well. That's not solely due to infrastructure. But it sure helps.

They do live in civilised countries though.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Oldjohnw » 22 Feb 2020, 10:27am

reohn2 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Kids in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have freedom, as well. That's not solely due to infrastructure. But it sure helps.

They do live in civilised countries though.


We live in a madhouse. And there is a massive population who all have cars on a small island. Political decisions were made half a century ago which determined that we would go down the internal combustion engine route. We now reap the whirlwind. Everything we do, from where we live to where we shop work or go to school is based around this.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 23 Feb 2020, 8:57am, edited 2 times in total.
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pjclinch
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby pjclinch » 22 Feb 2020, 11:43am

reohn2 wrote:
Wanlock Dod wrote:Indeed, kids in The Netherlands have real freedom, whereas kids in Little Britain have freedom of choice rather than freedom itself. It is no wonder that kids in The Netherlands are some of the happiest in the world.

In NL the infrastructure is in place for cycling to flourish unhindered.


As a "Cloggie by marriage" I perceive a considerable cultural difference beyond anything to do with cycling infrastructure. At the risk of rolling out stereotypes ("they're taller than us and their English is better", etc. etc.) the Dutch strike me as more straightforward and pragmatic. So since the whole country is full of standing water, rather than issue everyone lifejackets or keeping them indoors, they make sure kids learn to swim. Not so much a "can do" attitude as a "this is reality, this is what we need to do" attitude. Blame culture and risk aversion appear to be less ingrained, and there is a more general acceptance that kids aren't snowflakes.

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Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

reohn2
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Feb 2020, 11:54am

pjclinch wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Wanlock Dod wrote:Indeed, kids in The Netherlands have real freedom, whereas kids in Little Britain have freedom of choice rather than freedom itself. It is no wonder that kids in The Netherlands are some of the happiest in the world.

In NL the infrastructure is in place for cycling to flourish unhindered.


As a "Cloggie by marriage" I perceive a considerable cultural difference beyond anything to do with cycling infrastructure. At the risk of rolling out stereotypes ("they're taller than us and their English is better", etc. etc.) the Dutch strike me as more straightforward and pragmatic. So since the whole country is full of standing water, rather than issue everyone lifejackets or keeping them indoors, they make sure kids learn to swim. Not so much a "can do" attitude as a "this is reality, this is what we need to do" attitude. Blame culture and risk aversion appear to be less ingrained, and there is a more general acceptance that kids aren't snowflakes.

Pete.

That's been my impression when visiting NL.
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Wanlock Dod
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 22 Feb 2020, 10:26pm

Lots of British kids feel trapped because they have no independent mobility, and their parents feel like slaves to them because they feel that they have to provide a free taxi service for them. Nobody seems to particularly like it, they all seem to moan about it, but none of them seem to be able to see that there is a relatively simple solution to the situation. :(

reohn2
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby reohn2 » 23 Feb 2020, 8:44am

Wanlock Dod wrote:Lots of British kids feel trapped because they have no independent mobility, and their parents feel like slaves to them because they feel that they have to provide a free taxi service for them. Nobody seems to particularly like it, they all seem to moan about it, but none of them seem to be able to see that there is a relatively simple solution to the situation. :(

Does this post go some way to answering why that is:-

Oldjohnw wrote:We live in a madhouse. And there is a massive population who all have cars on a small island. Political decisions were made half a century ago which determined that we would go down the internal combustion engine route. We now reap the whirlwind. Everything we do, from where we love to where we shop work or go to school is based around this.
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I cycle therefore I am.