helmets from Why wear black?

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Oldjohnw
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Oldjohnw » 23 Feb 2020, 8:58am

reohn2 wrote:
Wanlock Dod wrote:Lots of British kids feel trapped because they have no independent mobility, and their parents feel like slaves to them because they feel that they have to provide a free taxi service for them. Nobody seems to particularly like it, they all seem to moan about it, but none of them seem to be able to see that there is a relatively simple solution to the situation. :(

Does this post go some way to answering why that is:-

Oldjohnw wrote:We live in a madhouse. And there is a massive population who all have cars on a small island. Political decisions were made half a century ago which determined that we would go down the internal combustion engine route. We now reap the whirlwind. Everything we do, from where we love to where we shop work or go to school is based around this.


Typo alert: instead of "love" read "live". Works either way, of course!
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby mjr » 23 Feb 2020, 5:23pm

Oldjohnw wrote:We live in a madhouse. And there is a massive population who all have cars on a small island.

Except they don't. Even in a small town like King's Lynn, in the central wards, about half of households don't have access to a car, but local politicians who live out in the burbs or villages refuse to accept this, keep wibbling that "cars are essential" and make service decisions that encourage car use. :evil: They even have various policies supposedly supporting travel choice and car free access to services since at least 2006, but no sign of implementation any time soon. :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Vorpal » 24 Feb 2020, 8:32am

Cars are inherently classist. The poorest have never been able to afford them. Increasing numbers are joining them, and many more cannot justify the cost. Yet, all of the decisions about planning and infrastructure are made by folks who drive everywhere.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Oldjohnw » 24 Feb 2020, 9:01am

According to the RAC, national UK car ownership is 77% by household. 81% of people have access to a car.

According to DVLA there were 38.2m licenced vehicles in 2018, an increase of 1.2% over the 2017 figures.

I am not making a point or expressing an opinion: just stating facts.
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Vorpal » 24 Feb 2020, 9:08am

cars by income group.jpg


https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... uktablea47

National Transport Survey data area also available with urban / rural split https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ts9902.ods
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Oldjohnw
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Oldjohnw » 24 Feb 2020, 9:28am

I'm sure that the studies referenced in above two posts will not be fundamentally disagreeing: just counting things slightly differently and analysing to different categories.

Whatever the case - and here is where I am expressing an opinion, albeit one based, I believe, on facts - the UK has an infrastructure and a whole lifestyle base predicated on motor car usage.

Unraveling and dismantling the one lifestyle and infrastructure requires simultaneously developing another. Sadly, we are seeing little appetite for this at government level.
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 24 Feb 2020, 9:22pm

Oldjohnw wrote:.. 81% of people have access to a car.

According to DVLA there were 38.2m licenced vehicles in 2018, an increase of 1.2% over the 2017 figures.

I am not making a point or expressing an opinion: just stating facts.


If you read further, it says that
At the end of 2018, there were 18.5 million licensed petrol cars, 12.4
million licensed diesel cars, and 620,000 licensed alternative fuel cars.


which adds up approx 31.52 million cars. Well I know there are some people that use a van or minbus or even small truck such as horseboxes like we normal folk use a car. An estimated 0.6% are classic cars etc which mostly are weekend runners i.e second cars. Can we fudge it and say that the 0.6% of classic cars balances out the number of households that only have a van or minibus? Also, some cars are hire cars so could be said available to anyone with a licence, but in practice they're not.

About 52.4 million adults in the UK in 2018. So a little rounding down thats 52 million people divided by 32 million cars. ( pun intended....)
Which is about 62% which feels more right to me than 81%. And as others have said cost is a factor for both the very young, and the unemployed and low paid.

But there's also around 2 million people with sight loss serious enough to lose their licence, over 500,000 people have epilepsy, and out of about 7.4 million people with heart disease maybe about a third have particular conditions that fail licence standards, need I go on to also mention diabetes, some physical disabilities, some psychiatry conditions.

It's said that many families share a car, but in my experience more multi driver families have a car each as it's difficult for them both to use the same car for work and school runs etc etc. Then there's the mainly men that have more tha one car to themselves, nextdoor neighbour has a banger of a merc, and a Porsche for the weekends (pompous git)

Transport inequality is only going to get worse with the phasing out of ICE cars. Even with a substantial increase in on street charging, it's going to be much much harder for people without their own driveway to keep an electric car. And they're not that cheap either, to buy even second hand, let alone new. Doubtless as some point the gobernment will scrap the EV grant all together. And electricity isn't going to get any cheaper from now on even if the gormiment begin only a tenth of genuine carbon reduction policies.

So unless public transport starts serving all the out of town industrial estates etc where the new jobs are, better cycling facilities is the only option for the most disadvantaged.

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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 24 Feb 2020, 10:02pm

Oldjohnw wrote:According to the RAC ... 81% of people have access to a car...

fullupandslowingdown wrote:... better cycling facilities is the only option for the most disadvantaged.

According to the government anybody who can’t afford a car can just get stuffed...

Oldjohnw
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Oldjohnw » 24 Feb 2020, 10:28pm

About 52.4 million adults in the UK in 2018. So a little rounding down thats 52 million people divided by 32 million cars. ( pun intended....)
Which is about 62% which feels more right to me than 81%. And as others have said cost is a factor for both the very young, and the unemployed and low paid.


I don't disagree with the thrust of your post but the 82% relates to access to a car. Several people in one household each able to access the same car.
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby reohn2 » 24 Feb 2020, 10:49pm

Wanlock Dod wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:According to the RAC ... 81% of people have access to a car...

fullupandslowingdown wrote:... better cycling facilities is the only option for the most disadvantaged.

According to the government anybody who can’t afford a car can just get stuffed...

And has been the case for a very long time.
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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby The utility cyclist » 25 Feb 2020, 1:42am

Oldjohnw wrote:According to the RAC, national UK car ownership is 77% by household. 81% of people have access to a car.

According to DVLA there were 38.2m licenced vehicles in 2018, an increase of 1.2% over the 2017 figures.

I am not making a point or expressing an opinion: just stating facts.

The Dutch have a higher car ownership per capita, it's the fact we allow easy access for motorists everywhere with next to no @@@@s given to the way they are driven are two of the main problems. Without robust motoring policy cycling policy is virtually worthless, with robust motoring policy you don't really need cycling policy, the motoring policy should resolve the problems of safety and ease of access for non motorists.

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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 25 Feb 2020, 7:42pm

True. Maybe they have worked out that you use your resources according to a hierarchy of need.
Need to get a pint from the corner shop : = : walk there.
Need to go to the leisure center 3 miles away : = : cycle there.
Need to go to the capital city for an appointment with the immigration office : = : train there so you're relaxed and chilled.
Need to collect your elderly mother from the hospital : = : OK, use your car.

We in the UK:
pint : = : car.
The gym : = : car.
Fun in the countryside : = : car.
Protest about wind turbines 40 miles from you : = : car.

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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Cunobelin » 25 Feb 2020, 8:18pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
About 52.4 million adults in the UK in 2018. So a little rounding down thats 52 million people divided by 32 million cars. ( pun intended....)
Which is about 62% which feels more right to me than 81%. And as others have said cost is a factor for both the very young, and the unemployed and low paid.


I don't disagree with the thrust of your post but the 82% relates to access to a car. Several people in one household each able to access the same car.



From a rural background, this was always a contentious description.

Often rural villagers have a single car and several members (elderly relatives, wife and children) They have "access" to a car, bit often only at a weekend or evening because it is at the main breadwinner's place of work.

The question is how biased the description of "access" is

Families moving into town because they can not access shops or facilities is one of the factors affecting rural communities and exacerbating depopulation

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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby Mike Sales » 25 Feb 2020, 8:23pm

Cunobelin wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
About 52.4 million adults in the UK in 2018. So a little rounding down thats 52 million people divided by 32 million cars. ( pun intended....)
Which is about 62% which feels more right to me than 81%. And as others have said cost is a factor for both the very young, and the unemployed and low paid.


I don't disagree with the thrust of your post but the 82% relates to access to a car. Several people in one household each able to access the same car.



From a rural background, this was always a contentious description.

Often rural villagers have a single car and several members (elderly relatives, wife and children) They have "access" to a car, bit often only at a weekend or evening because it is at the main breadwinner's place of work.

The question is how biased the description of "access" is

Families moving into town because they can not access shops or facilities is one of the factors affecting rural communities and exacerbating depopulation


Indeed.
Children too, under the driving age especially, are deprived of independent mobility. Many would like to ride to school for instance, but our motor-ridden roads are too repellent.

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Re: helmets from Why wear black?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Feb 2020, 8:27am

fullupandslowingdown wrote:
It's said that many families share a car, but in my experience more multi driver families have a car each as it's difficult for them both to use the same car for work and school runs etc etc. Then there's the mainly men that have more tha one car to themselves, nextdoor neighbour has a banger of a merc, and a Porsche for the weekends (pompous git)


Yep - although we have been one car, two drivers for well over a decade. I can remember hiring a car once, and borrowing a friends car once, to enable combinations of journeys.

I don’t know of any (I probably do, but can’t think of them) other households with fewer cars than drivers, excluding those with no cars.
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