Wear a long wig?

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mikeymo
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Wear a long wig?

Postby mikeymo » 8 Feb 2020, 12:40pm

It's only one study, and the subject was also the author. But it seems fairly unequivocal. Pretending to be a long haired woman increases overtaking distance. An extra 14cm.

"Clearly, donning the wig to appear more female to approaching motorists had a definite and substantial effect on overtaking proximities: drivers left more space for what they thought was a woman."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457506001540?via%3Dihub

Has anybody with short hair actually done this? As a safety thing, that is.

Psamathe
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby Psamathe » 8 Feb 2020, 1:45pm

Many posts on that research on the forum. It was done some time ago. Try a forum search on "walker blond" (without quotes).

Ian

Mike Sales
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby Mike Sales » 8 Feb 2020, 1:52pm

mikeymo wrote:It's only one study, and the subject was also the author. But it seems fairly unequivocal. Pretending to be a long haired woman increases overtaking distance. An extra 14cm.

"Clearly, donning the wig to appear more female to approaching motorists had a definite and substantial effect on overtaking proximities: drivers left more space for what they thought was a woman."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457506001540?via%3Dihub

Has anybody with short hair actually done this? As a safety thing, that is.


Whereas helmet wearing resulted in a closer pass.

But as Spiegelhalter and Goldacre mentioned in their BMJ editorial on helmets, this is only one study with one subject and a single author.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 8 Feb 2020, 3:00pm

Ian Walker of Bath Uni (himself an awesomely strong distance rider) almost ten years ago.

And of course there's an assumption here that the readers of this thread will not be women.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 8 Feb 2020, 3:05pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Ian Walker of Bath Uni (himself an awesomely strong distance rider) almost ten years ago.

And of course there's an assumption here that the readers of this thread will not be women.

Or not have natural long hair!

Mike Sales
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby Mike Sales » 8 Feb 2020, 3:06pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Ian Walker of Bath Uni (himself an awesomely strong distance rider) almost ten years ago.

And of course there's an assumption here that the readers of this thread will not be women.


Might be a woman with short hair?

mikeymo
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby mikeymo » 8 Feb 2020, 3:43pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:Ian Walker of Bath Uni (himself an awesomely strong distance rider) almost ten years ago.

And of course there's an assumption here that the readers of this thread will not be women.


Nope. YOU have made that assumption. I made no such assumption, which is why I SPECIFICALLY used the phrase "long haired woman". Because a short haired woman could "pretend" to be a LONG HAIRED woman by wearing a wig. And they might do that in the knowledge that many drivers will also make assumptions about sex based on hair length.

If drivers behind then make the assumption that long hair = a woman they may be right. Or they may be wrong. That assumption isn't the same as any assumption I made in posting originally.

mikeymo
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby mikeymo » 8 Feb 2020, 3:44pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:Ian Walker of Bath Uni (himself an awesomely strong distance rider) almost ten years ago.

And of course there's an assumption here that the readers of this thread will not be women.

Or not have natural long hair!


Nope. YOU have made that assumption. I made no such assumption, which is why I SPECIFICALLY used the phrase "long haired woman". Because a short haired woman could "pretend" to be a LONG HAIRED woman by wearing a wig. And they might do that in the knowledge that many drivers will also make assumptions about sex based on hair length.

If drivers behind then make the assumption that long hair = a woman they may be right. Or they may be wrong. That assumption isn't the same as any assumption I made in posting originally.

mikeymo
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby mikeymo » 8 Feb 2020, 3:58pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Bmblbzzz wrote:Ian Walker of Bath Uni (himself an awesomely strong distance rider) almost ten years ago.

And of course there's an assumption here that the readers of this thread will not be women.


Might be a woman with short hair?


Yes, well spotted. Your perspicacity really knows no bounds. That's why I used the phrase, intentionally, of "long haired woman". And later on why I asked the question "Has anybody with short hair actually done this?". Note the use of the sex neutral term "anybody". Oh, and the phrase "short hair".

Let's do a little bit of context, shall we? The context is the study that I linked to. I make no reference to any other study, do I? Just that one.

And IN THAT CONTEXT it was found that putting on a long wig, with the INTENTION of "pretending" to be a woman (with long hair), had the effect of increasing passing distances. It was INFERRED by the researcher that the wig had the effect of making drivers behind the rider ASSUME the rider was a woman, and give them more space. Because, surprise surprise, far more women than men have long hair. I'm afraid I can't supply a proper peer reviewed APA or Harvard referenced study to support my assertion that more women than men have long hair, so apologies for my lack of "scientific" rigour, which you seem so keen on. But I can look around me at who has long hair and who doesn't.

The ASSUMPTIONS are being made by those replying on this thread, and perhaps drivers of cars.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby Cunobelin » 8 Feb 2020, 4:03pm

There was some confirmation from TRL

They did some research with images of various riders

A youngster on a BMX was considered worthy of extra attention as were women on “ordinary bikes”

However “serious cyclists” ( HiViz, helmets etc ) were considered ” competent to deal with traffic” so there was no need to slow down, nor to move out to increase passing distance

mikeymo
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby mikeymo » 8 Feb 2020, 4:04pm

Mike Sales wrote:
mikeymo wrote:It's only one study, and the subject was also the author. But it seems fairly unequivocal. Pretending to be a long haired woman increases overtaking distance. An extra 14cm.

"Clearly, donning the wig to appear more female to approaching motorists had a definite and substantial effect on overtaking proximities: drivers left more space for what they thought was a woman."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457506001540?via%3Dihub

Has anybody with short hair actually done this? As a safety thing, that is.


Whereas helmet wearing resulted in a closer pass.

But as Spiegelhalter and Goldacre mentioned in their BMJ editorial on helmets, this is only one study with one subject and a single author.


Good old Spiegelhalter and Goldacre. Yes they did say that. Funnily enough so did I. At the very start of my post.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby Cunobelin » 8 Feb 2020, 4:06pm

Totally anecdotal...

One of the students used to swear by a short skirt... far more vehicles slowed down and gave more room than when she wore cycling gear!

Mike Sales
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby Mike Sales » 8 Feb 2020, 4:07pm

mikeymo wrote:But as Spiegelhalter and Goldacre mentioned in their BMJ editorial on helmets, this is only one study with one subject and a single author.


Good old Spiegelhalter and Goldacre. Yes they did say that. Funnily enough so did I. At the very start of my post.[/quote]

Partly. You omitted the bit about helmets for some reason. Nor did you credit S & G.

mikeymo
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby mikeymo » 8 Feb 2020, 4:24pm

Mike Sales wrote:Partly. You omitted the bit about helmets for some reason. Nor did you credit S & G.


I didn't need to "credit" them. It wasn't their observation, it was mine. The fact that, as you point out, Spiegelhalter and Goldacre actually agree with my observation, doesn't mean I have to "credit" them. My link was to the study of overtaking distances, helmet wearing and gender. You know, the one I linked to, carried out by Ian Walker. I didn't mention Spiegelhalter and Goldacre, or their comments on the study. Why should I? You seem to have something of an obsession with Spiegelhalter and Goldacre. I'm always wary of people who reference the same study repeatedly as evidence that supports their "point of view". I think it indicates prejudice, an unwillingness to consider other evidence that doesn't support their point of view, and even possibly, to change one's mind.

I also didn't mention helmets, that's true. Well spotted, again. I didn't mention helmets. At all. Because, strange as it might seem, the subject I was interested in was whether anybody has actually tried the wig thing. And if they had what their experience was. Maybe you could have discerned that from the title and the body of the post. If you weren't so determined to push your own opinion.

Bmblbzzz
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Re: Wear a long wig?

Postby Bmblbzzz » 8 Feb 2020, 4:38pm

Wow!

(Does a woman with short hair appear less woman-like than a woman with long hair? Does she appear less woman-like than a man with long hair? So many questions this could raise. A friend -- a woman with short hair -- reckoned the increased distance was due to drivers thinking "There's a bloke dressed up in a wig. Weird!" We'd really need to compare passing distances for men with wigs, women with long hair, women with short hair and if possible take note of whether drivers were male or female.)