Minimalist helmet?

For all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmet usage will be moved here.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby Cunobelin » 10 Mar 2020, 12:31pm

mjr wrote:
Mick F wrote:Do they stipulate where the helmet should be worn?

Arm?
Knee?

Do they supply the reflective vests and the "safety" helmets?

Good ones. They also specify no standards for either garment except "reflective".

I would also challenge for any evidence that there is a cycling safety problem on the site (not merely "OMG I saw a cyclist with no hat" wibble) and that h&h will mitigate against it.



Be reasonable

Write and explain that you have problems due to the rapid introduction of these requirements

Then ask what standards you need to meet

Snell B90
Snell B95
EN1078
EN1080
ASTM F1952-15
ANSI Z90

After all you would not want to buy a helmet that does not fulfil their requirements

Equally what standard HiViz do they require.. And do they mean HiViz and / or reflective

For instance most "HiViz" cycle wear will not comply to EN471



More importantly you need permission to be exempt whilst they sort out your reasonable request

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Cunobelin
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby Cunobelin » 10 Mar 2020, 12:58pm

Easy to be an internet warrior, more difficult to upset your employer, so this is entirely a suggestion.

The Post Ofice tried this some years ago and the HSE refused to support them, stating that Helmets were NOT formal PPE as defined by HSE

The Post Office then got round this by making it a "Uniform Policy"

This opens up a whole new game - Taxation.

This is a typical link

Contact Payroll and ask for their advice, as you should be able to make a claim for the purchase and maintenance of the equipment.

Additionally inquire about VAT... If this is equipment is safety equipment that the company is making compulsory, you may be exempt from VAT at the site of purchase, or reclaim from HM Government., but this has to be supported by that employer. Ask for a letter stating it is required by the employer to support your tax return

None of this is "outrageous" so if you feel able, make some enquiries and if you can get others to do the same.
Last edited by Cunobelin on 10 Mar 2020, 1:00pm, edited 1 time in total.

Phileas
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby Phileas » 10 Mar 2020, 12:59pm

Two problems with this:
Firstly, I will still be harassed by gate security even if I have a temporary waiver.
Secondly, the rule has been brought in by Airbus, for whom I don't work - they're our most importantly customer so my higher-ups will not be sympathetic, leaving aside that most people assume this sort of thing is a no-brainer.

tatanab
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby tatanab » 10 Mar 2020, 1:19pm

Phileas wrote:the rule has been brought in by Airbus, for whom I don't work.
is this a ruling only at Airbus Filton, or also on other sites?

Since you are not an Airbus employee and cannot rock the boat, I see no option but to comply - perhaps as awkwardly as possible by questioning standards etc as others have suggested.

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NUKe
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby NUKe » 10 Mar 2020, 2:30pm

A couple of thoughts
1. Will they accept a Cycle jacket with reflectives as hi Viz?
2. Chances are it will be forgotten about in a couple of weeks.
Back to your minimalist helmet the old racing helmets from the 70s are about as minimalist as you can get. Search L’eroica helmet on ebay
But do find the onsite BUG they should have this anti cycling move covered. IF they mumble they all wear helmets tell them they are discouraging ordinary cycling.
NUKe
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PH
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby PH » 10 Mar 2020, 2:45pm

They can make their own rules up and as you say your employer isn’t going to rock the boat with their customer. A polite letter pointing out the benefits of cycling and how this policy will deter it is always worth’s try, but there isn’t much else you can do.
I worked on a site where no cycling was permitted, you had to get off and walk the bike along the marked walkway. No amount of complaining made any difference and not complying was a disciplinary matter according to the signs and I wasn’t going to test it.
You cold ask the gate staff to keep the helmet and pass it back and forth as you enter and leave site.

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Wanlock Dod
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby Wanlock Dod » 10 Mar 2020, 3:03pm

Phileas wrote:... most people assume this sort of thing is a no-brainer.

It is indeed a beautiful irony that this situation comes about as a result of people not using their brains :roll:

AlaninWales
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby AlaninWales » 11 Mar 2020, 11:05am

This is also a wonderful example to show those here who complain that "anti-helmeters" are making a fuss about nothing because no-one is making them compulsory :cry:

fullupandslowingdown
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 11 Mar 2020, 12:38pm

tongue firmly in cheek:

Get a nice van, something like a ford custom with the 155BHP engine. When you get to work, bung your bike in the back, then drive off at high speed careering through the masses before parking up at your worksite.

I appreciate your problem, contractors have to jump through everyone elses hoops and it gets annoying after a while. For instance, having to have different colour hard hats because for some insane reason a main contractor has decreed that white hats are black... or having both hi-vis in orange and in yellow as some sites insist in orange, but some site supervisors wear orange :roll:

Try to nobble the airbus safety manager. Find out what their beef is, maybe they don't like cyclists because of the usual bla bla bla, or maybe they had to come up with a new safety measure for that month and couldn't think of anything else having exhausted all options around FOD.
In fact be careful, they might decree next month that to avoid FOD you have to use safety wire on all your nuts

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 11 Mar 2020, 1:04pm

If there is only one entrance then I'd be tempted to stop at the gate - in the middle of the lane, spend a good five minutes unpacking your panniers to get to the helmet at the bottom, repack - then unpack again to get the high viz out....

Put the helmet on an elbow, and wear a jacket over the high vis, or wear it as a scarf.

Utterly ridiculous.

Oh, and absolutely insist that you wear it whenever you walk anywhere on site - since the site is *so* dangerous...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Icsunonove
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby Icsunonove » 11 Mar 2020, 3:08pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Oh, and absolutely insist that you wear it whenever you walk anywhere on site - since the site is *so* dangerous...


To make the point, I've thought about wearing a cycle helmet when driving, running/walking, going shopping, visiting the pub etc. Trouble is, I fear people will start to think that is a good idea (after all, why not? If it saves just one life it'll be worth it) and it will also become the norm.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 11 Mar 2020, 3:15pm

Cycle helmut for driving, swimming.. :?
People do queer things with their helmuts, hang them from rucksack, belt, shopping trolley..
Last edited by Cyril Haearn on 12 Mar 2020, 2:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
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colin54
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby colin54 » 11 Mar 2020, 4:01pm

Are they actually talking about a cycle helmet, when they say 'safety' helmet maybe they mean a site helmet ? Strange it's compulsory for cyclists and not pedestrians if so.

Phileas
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby Phileas » 11 Mar 2020, 5:07pm

Today, i decided to walk through the gate and then remount 50 yards on. When leaving the site, I cycled and if questioned I would have said “sorry, I forgot”, although no one did.

I’ve fantasised about making a fuss at the gate and wearing the helmet & vest in unconventional ways but I feel a bit like I’m on my own - so many other cyclists see this as sensible anyway. It’s such a widespread attitude that I haven’t even tried to discuss the issue with colleagues.

Having said that, one of the site safety reps is a keen cyclist but doesn’t wear a helmet. Unfortunately, he isn’t an Airbus employee either - not that it he could have done anything about it.

@colin54
I think it’s pretty clear what policy intends. The interesting question is what I can get away with helmet wise. I could probably wear a hard-hat. On the other hand, would they accept a saucepan which is probably almost as effective?

A toddler’s helmet would be easier to transport.

Nigel
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Re: Minimalist helmet?

Postby Nigel » 12 Mar 2020, 5:37pm

I think there is a folding helmet which has an EN standards certificate.

If an employee of Airbus, then fight as per ideas in the thread. But as a subcontractor, need to comply until it can be challenged the long way round.