Re: Advice on Helmets - discussion topic

For all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmet usage will be moved here.
mikeymo
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Re: Advice on Helmets - discussion topic

Postby mikeymo » 3 Jun 2020, 6:12pm

Helmets? You must be new here.

Mike Sales
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Mike Sales » 3 Jun 2020, 6:21pm

mikeymo wrote:Helmets? You must be new here.


Indeed. All criticism of helmets has been hidden away in a hard-to-find corner.

Mike Sales
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Mike Sales » 3 Jun 2020, 6:32pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:A lot of the pricier helmets have had lots of money spent on their development. Devices like MIPS did cost a lot to develop, alternatively, some very expensive lids are made from high grade Carbon fibre, which isn’t a cheap material. I’ve recently bought a Kask Utopia lid, the cost is mainly down to development costs, I have a Casco Warp sprint, which is expensive because of both the materials used to make it, and the development costs.


I know no evidence that more expensive helmets with more "development" are more effective in protecting the head, and their makers refrain from making such claims, for some reason.

whoof
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby whoof » 3 Jun 2020, 6:42pm

Ehi wrote:
mikeymo wrote:Helmets? You must be new here.


Yes I am and new to cycling as a adult

I used to cycle as a kid, but had a long break, so a total novice and know absolutely nothing, I just learnt about shimano gears, breaks and body types. But I dont know the advantages over each :D

It might be worth noting that there are a few evangelicals on both sides of the wear or not wear a helmet debate.As such most mention of helmets descends into well worn arguments and therefore the separate helmet section on here.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 3 Jun 2020, 6:50pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:A lot of the pricier helmets have had lots of money spent on their development. Devices like MIPS did cost a lot to develop, alternatively, some very expensive lids are made from high grade Carbon fibre, which isn’t a cheap material. I’ve recently bought a Kask Utopia lid, the cost is mainly down to development costs, I have a Casco Warp sprint, which is expensive because of both the materials used to make it, and the development costs.


I know no evidence that more expensive helmets with more "development" are more effective in protecting the head, and their makers refrain from making such claims, for some reason.


https://mipsprotection.com/

Mike Sales
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Mike Sales » 3 Jun 2020, 7:04pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:A lot of the pricier helmets have had lots of money spent on their development. Devices like MIPS did cost a lot to develop, alternatively, some very expensive lids are made from high grade Carbon fibre, which isn’t a cheap material. I’ve recently bought a Kask Utopia lid, the cost is mainly down to development costs, I have a Casco Warp sprint, which is expensive because of both the materials used to make it, and the development costs.


I know no evidence that more expensive helmets with more "development" are more effective in protecting the head, and their makers refrain from making such claims, for some reason.


https://mipsprotection.com/


The claim is couched in very tentative and general terms, and does not seem to be based on any testing that they care to tell us much about. It certainly does not say that "your skull will come out of an accident in better shape, with our new, miracle system."

The MIPS BPS can reduce the rotational motion and reduce the risk of brain damage.


When the rotational force is redirected, the risk of strain to the brain tissue is reduced. After conducting more than 31,000 tests, and moreover being validated and confirmed by third party testing, we know that the MIPS BPS adds protection at certain types of impacts.


"adds protection" how much? "certain types" what types would those be?

Sounds like advertising hype to me, the sort that you can discount in any toothpaste ad. "Dentists recommend....".



One might want to hear more about these "third party tests", before giving them any credence.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 3 Jun 2020, 7:18pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Sales
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Mike Sales » 3 Jun 2020, 7:15pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:Let's keep it on topic for the OP?

IMV helmets are like saddles- very individual as to comfort preference, and very little performance difference compared to price, at least for the average cyclist.

My advice would be try them on. Cheapest first, and buy the first one you feel fits well


The MIPS system is claimed (in vague, advertisers' language) by the helmet makers who use it to improve protection. Discussing its efficacy seems to me to be exactly on topic.

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mjr
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby mjr » 3 Jun 2020, 7:53pm

Vorpal wrote: [...] Any other discussion about the efficacy or not of helmets will be removed and placed in the helmet section.

As for the OP's question, [...]

A claim of greater efficacy of a vague marketing brand was made in response to the OP's question. It has not been removed, despite being reported. Will it be removed or may we discuss it without the chilling threats, please?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 3 Jun 2020, 7:58pm

mjr wrote:
Vorpal wrote: [...] Any other discussion about the efficacy or not of helmets will be removed and placed in the helmet section.

As for the OP's question, [...]

A claim of greater efficacy of a vague marketing brand was made in response to the OP's question. It has not been removed, despite being reported. Will it be removed or may we discuss it without the chilling threats, please?


It has not. The reasons for the difference in costs was explained, nothing more.

Mike Sales
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Mike Sales » 3 Jun 2020, 7:58pm

mjr wrote:
Vorpal wrote: [...] Any other discussion about the efficacy or not of helmets will be removed and placed in the helmet section.

As for the OP's question, [...]

A claim of greater efficacy of a vague marketing brand was made in response to the OP's question. It has not been removed, despite being reported. Will it be removed or may we discuss it without the chilling threats, please?


You may say what you like about helmets, but may not raise doubts about their efficacy. That will get you sent into the dark corner.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 3 Jun 2020, 8:01pm

Mike Sales wrote:
mjr wrote:
Vorpal wrote: [...] Any other discussion about the efficacy or not of helmets will be removed and placed in the helmet section.

As for the OP's question, [...]

A claim of greater efficacy of a vague marketing brand was made in response to the OP's question. It has not been removed, despite being reported. Will it be removed or may we discuss it without the chilling threats, please?


You may say what you like about helmets, but may not raise doubts about their efficacy. That will get you sent into the dark corner.


Quite right, explaining how the technology and it’s development costs contribute to cost of the lid is what was asked, that’s what was pointed out.

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Cugel
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Cugel » 4 Jun 2020, 8:12am

I have spells available that will prevent cycling accidents or at least provide the user with a magical shield of invulnerability against everything but reality. There are various versions costing between £39.99 and £399.99. All have been tested and passed, the tests being very stringent ones of my own devising.

The one that will suit you best is that with the colours, sparklers and pulsation rate that you like the best.

Cugel

Mike Sales
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby Mike Sales » 4 Jun 2020, 2:10pm

scottg wrote:Here you go, protection ratings with prices.

5 star rated helmets range in price from $300 to $55, list price.

https://helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html


Since it cannot be shown that helmets have any effect on casualties out on the road, one has to wonder to what these ratings refer.
I expect the tests are purely mechanical and theoretical.

mikeymo
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Re: Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby mikeymo » 4 Jun 2020, 2:11pm

slowster wrote:During that time it seemed to me that I saw and experienced a disproportionate number of incidents of poor driving by Volvo owners, who I suspected were guilty of risk compensation


Do you have some statistics to support how "it seemed" to you?

Perhaps a little bit of googling would help.

https://www.petervardy.com/britains-best-drivers-revealed

mikeymo
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Advice on Helmets prices vs quality ????

Postby mikeymo » 4 Jun 2020, 2:23pm

Ehi wrote:hi guys
whats the difference in helmets prices ???

I like to think the major arguments has to do with comfort, as they all pass the basic regulation requirements

So why are some so expensive and is a basic £15 budget helment ok ?

many thanks
Ehi


You will have seen, by now, that despite moderators' promise to keep your post on-topic, they have failed to do so. Allowing, yet again, for a perfectly reasonable request for information to descend into another opportunity for the anti-helmet evangelicals to promote their opinions, which they have done so very many times in the past. Indeed, the discussion now seems to have graduated to a discussion between the moderators themselves, and some of the grandees of these forums, into how the discussion itself should be conducted.