David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

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The utility cyclist
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David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by The utility cyclist »

Just listened to David Miller talk some right garbage regards how cycling helmets have saved thousands in the pro ranks, ignoring that there are more deaths since helmets were mandated than before the UCI stuck their noses in/reacted to a single incident.

People like that need to back claims up with facts not faith based drivel :twisted:
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/192984 ... collision/

Would a helmet have helped here? I think it would.
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by Vorpal »

Marcus Aurelius wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:21pm https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/192984 ... collision/

Would a helmet have helped here? I think it would.
From the the article
There is no evidence to suggest that Mr Murray, of Holyrood Avenue, would have survived the incident if he had been wearing a helmet.
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by Mick F »

Why did he "collide with a bridge"?
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:49pm Why did he "collide with a bridge"?
I don't think that anything of this sort has a single cause, but the linked local reporting and other articles emphasise the lighting.

Unfortunately coroners' findings aren't routinely published. They will supply them on demand, but often want a reason.

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 13 May 2021, 8:05pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Mick F wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:49pm Why did he "collide with a bridge"?
That we will never know.
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Vorpal wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:44pm
Marcus Aurelius wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:21pm https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/192984 ... collision/

Would a helmet have helped here? I think it would.
From the the article
There is no evidence to suggest that Mr Murray, of Holyrood Avenue, would have survived the incident if he had been wearing a helmet.
The usual weasel words “There is no evidence to suggest…. “
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by irc »

Marcus Aurelius wrote: 13 May 2021, 8:03pm
Vorpal wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:44pm
Marcus Aurelius wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:21pm https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/192984 ... collision/

Would a helmet have helped here? I think it would.
From the the article
There is no evidence to suggest that Mr Murray, of Holyrood Avenue, would have survived the incident if he had been wearing a helmet.
The usual weasel words “There is no evidence to suggest…. “
Weasel words? Stating a fact. As we can't repeat the crash with a helmet we will never know.

Would a helmet have prevented his chest injuries?
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by fastpedaller »

The utility cyclist wrote: 12 Aug 2020, 8:04pm Just listened to David Miller talk some right garbage regards how cycling helmets have saved thousands in the pro ranks, ignoring that there are more deaths since helmets were mandated than before the UCI stuck their noses in/reacted to a single incident.

People like that need to back claims up with facts not faith based drivel :twisted:
Millar has been using something that's addled his brain? :shock:
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by Ride-sleep-repeat »

The front tyre of his bike was also significantly under-inflated.
How could they possibly know this for sure?
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by slowster »

Mick F wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:49pm Why did he "collide with a bridge"?
There were no witnesses to the accident, but for what it's worth the following might have been factors:

- The bridge in question is at the bottom of a hill. The B2150 descends the hill in a long, fast, fairly straight run.

- The road bends right to pass under the bridge. If someone fails to make that turn they would go straight into the brickwork (see the Google Streetview photograph in the link below).

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9639985 ... 384!8i8192

The implication of the statements about the bike's lighting and the potential reaction time is that the light was not good enough at the estimated minimum collision speed of 25mph to be able to see the bridge or the arrowed warning sign, brake and turn. However given the poor quality of the police technical report in the Charlie Alliston case, I am a bit sceptical of the police investigator's assessment: I am not convinced they have the resources, time and sufficient specialist expertise to make such categoric statements about bicycle accidents.

For me the bottom line is that it's mostly pointless, even unhelpful, speculation. I could offer a speculative cause which is just as good, and possibly better than those, which is that if an oncoming car had emerged through the bridge its headlights could have blinded the cyclist in the crucial moments when he would have needed to see the bridge/warning sign and turn. Even dipped headlights might possibly have done that, because the dipped beam would rake across any oncoming traffic as the car exited the bridge and turned, but full beam headlights would certainly blind oncoming traffic.
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

slowster wrote: 14 May 2021, 1:27pm
Mick F wrote: 13 May 2021, 6:49pm Why did he "collide with a bridge"?
There were no witnesses to the accident, but for what it's worth the following might have been factors:

- The bridge in question is at the bottom of a hill. The B2150 descends the hill in a long, fast, fairly straight run.

- The road bends right to pass under the bridge. If someone fails to make that turn they would go straight into the brickwork (see the Google Streetview photograph in the link below).

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9639985 ... 384!8i8192

The implication of the statements about the bike's lighting and the potential reaction time is that the light was not good enough at the estimated minimum collision speed of 25mph to be able to see the bridge or the arrowed warning sign, brake and turn. However given the poor quality of the police technical report in the Charlie Alliston case, I am a bit sceptical of the police investigator's assessment: I am not convinced they have the resources, time and sufficient specialist expertise to make such categoric statements about bicycle accidents.

For me the bottom line is that it's mostly pointless, even unhelpful, speculation. I could offer a speculative cause which is just as good, and possibly better than those, which is that if an oncoming car had emerged through the bridge its headlights could have blinded the cyclist in the crucial moments when he would have needed to see the bridge/warning sign and turn. Even dipped headlights might possibly have done that, because the dipped beam would rake across any oncoming traffic as the car exited the bridge and turned, but full beam headlights would certainly blind oncoming traffic.
I ride that road quite frequently, I know where that bridge is. It is completely conceivable that a mechanical issue caused the deviation that led to the collision. When I first used that route, I clipped a pothole and got an Oooohhhhssshhhhhh, moment with the bridge walls.
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by leftpoole »

The utility cyclist wrote: 12 Aug 2020, 8:04pm Just listened to David Miller talk some right garbage regards how cycling helmets have saved thousands in the pro ranks, ignoring that there are more deaths since helmets were mandated than before the UCI stuck their noses in/reacted to a single incident.

People like that need to back claims up with facts not faith based drivel :twisted:
I certainly do not like David Miller. But his claims are correct.
My own experience proves so also. I have been in an accident on the road and whilst my helmet split, my head did not. Point of fact answered.
I will not be commenting further. The claims that helmets are not useful are patently incorrect. As is the claims that motorcycle helmets are not required!
Piers Corbyn? He goes around spouting nonsense. Get in touch with him, you could start a campaign.... LOL!
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Re: David Millar on ITV4 making unsubstantiated claims re helmets

Post by mjr »

leftpoole wrote: 3 Jun 2021, 12:22pm
The utility cyclist wrote: 12 Aug 2020, 8:04pm Just listened to David Miller talk some right garbage regards how cycling helmets have saved thousands in the pro ranks, ignoring that there are more deaths since helmets were mandated than before the UCI stuck their noses in/reacted to a single incident.

People like that need to back claims up with facts not faith based drivel :twisted:
I certainly do not like David Miller. But his claims are correct.
There have only just been the low thousands of pro racers since helmets have been forced (in 2003 or so) so the only way his reported claim could be correct is if the majority would have died from head injuries. That is very unlikely, to put it mildly!
My own experience proves so also. I have been in an accident on the road and whilst my helmet split, my head did not. Point of fact answered.
Not really. A split helmet is a failed helmet. The interesting thing would be whether it worked (crushed) before splitting.
I will not be commenting further. The claims that helmets are not useful are patently incorrect. As is the claims that motorcycle helmets are not required!
Helmets are useful in some limited ways but do more harm than good in general.

Motorcycle helmets are still not required in some countries.
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