Two separate threads?

For all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmet usage will be moved here.
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pjclinch
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby pjclinch » 2 Sep 2020, 12:23pm

Mick F wrote:My idea is that anti or pro is personal preference, not dictatorship.

If you are anti, you could feel that all helmets are pointless and would be happy to speak to helmet wearers and try to educate them into not being sheep and following the "fashion" without thought.

If you are pro, you could feel that all cyclists should wear a helmet because it's common sense and an easy thing to wear. They too would be happy to talk to non-helmet wearers to try to educate them and that it's not fashion, but a necessity.

Note the words, "could".


There are still problems here with polarisation of something that isn't actually polarised, despite people at the extreme ends seeing it as purely black and white.

To draw an analogy with how "pro" and "anti" aren't actually that helpful, aspirin are useful in some situations for preventing heart attacks, but the evidence isn't there to support everyone popping an aspirin every day (that has actually been suggested, at least for certain groups). If someone says that the evidence isn't there to support that, are they "anti aspirin"? If someone doesn't think everyone should be popping one every day for cardiac health, does that mean they shouldn't take one for e.g. a headache?
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RH20
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby RH20 » 3 Sep 2020, 6:25pm

Aargh gone from helmets to Aspirin. Back to the subject, should there be a pro and anti helmet thread. Why not close the issue altogether? After all, the likelihood that pro helmet wearers will change to no helmet, or anti helmet wearers will change to wearing a helmet is highly unlikely. This issue seems to have been done to death. Better perhaps to have no more on this discussion, hang on that could be censorship mmmm now what to do?

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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby pjclinch » 3 Sep 2020, 6:40pm

RH20 wrote:Aargh gone from helmets to Aspirin. Back to the subject, should there be a pro and anti helmet thread. Why not close the issue altogether? After all, the likelihood that pro helmet wearers will change to no helmet, or anti helmet wearers will change to wearing a helmet is highly unlikely.


I know quite a few folk, me included, who have gone from helmet on every trip and thinking they're s clear safety win to be encouraged, to rarely wearing them and turning against promotion of them.
So I don't see that as the case at all!

Pete.
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Mick F
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby Mick F » 3 Sep 2020, 7:08pm

Back to my OP.

Mick F wrote: ..............This would give two separate and distinct arguments, that anyone "sitting on the fence" about helmet use can look at both sides without getting bogged down with opposing views all mixed up and clouding the issue.

We could give two separate links to people, in the clear knowledge that they won't be embroiled in it all and will see the pros and cons of it all .................


Two separate presentations setting out your store.
The readers can then make their own minds up.
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Sep 2020, 7:27pm

Mick F wrote: ... Two separate presentations setting out your store.
The readers can then make their own minds up.


As I posted. It's been done to death. It just needs somebody with time on their hands to volunteer to sort it into two neat piles. When that's done, if anybody notices something missing, they can make a neat addition to the appropriate heap.

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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby Nigel » 4 Sep 2020, 1:54pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Mick F wrote: ... Two separate presentations setting out your store.
The readers can then make their own minds up.


As I posted. It's been done to death. It just needs somebody with time on their hands to volunteer to sort it into two neat piles. When that's done, if anybody notices something missing, they can make a neat addition to the appropriate heap.


You're missing the third pile, the really important pile. The pile which includes "helmets are not in the top-10 of issues which affect cycling safety" (paraphrasing Chris Boardman).

The problem with the "pro/anti" dichotomy is that it suggests cycle helmets are really important. They're not, except when they become a barrier to people cycling, or participation in not-racing cycling events.

- Nigel

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Mick F
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby Mick F » 4 Sep 2020, 3:53pm

thirdcrank wrote:
Mick F wrote: ... Two separate presentations setting out your store.
The readers can then make their own minds up.


As I posted. It's been done to death. It just needs somebody with time on their hands to volunteer to sort it into two neat piles. When that's done, if anybody notices something missing, they can make a neat addition to the appropriate heap.
TC, you are correct of course, but that's not what I'm getting at.

In order to sort the stuff out, it needs someone to read it all. It perhaps needs a Mod to weed out the two (or more) sides of the argument(s). Impossible task methinks.


I'll try again to put my idea forwards.

I'm suggesting ................

The people who like helmets and want to tell people why they like them and why they wear them, can post on one thread.

The other side of the house, can post on another thread about why they don't like them and why they don't wear them and why they want to tell people about it.

Seems simple to me.
Mick F. Cornwall

Navara
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby Navara » 4 Sep 2020, 4:38pm

Mick F wrote:
The people who like helmets and want to tell people why they like them and why they wear them, can post on one thread.

The other side of the house, can post on another thread about why they don't like them and why they don't wear them and why they want to tell people about it.

Seems simple to me.

And it is........until you get people involved :wink:
There are few topics that will always create conflict on both sides.
Helmets.
B****t
Clipless/flats
Racism/or not
Tubeless
Best to leave it be.
Last edited by Navara on 5 Sep 2020, 12:32pm, edited 1 time in total.

recumbentpanda
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby recumbentpanda » 5 Sep 2020, 11:51am

I think the idea of to separate threads is great -just not separating the discussion into two partisan echo chambers. Instead, I propose: one thread, for the discussion of the efficacy and desirability of helmets, as per the present discussion, and another for those wishing to wear helmets and who wish to discuss the pros and cons of different models, design features etc etc, free from partisan objections from either side.

tim-b
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby tim-b » 6 Sep 2020, 7:23am

Delete the lot. There isn't any convincing evidence either way and promote the CUK line https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/cycle-helmets, which, as a helmet-wearer, I think is quite balanced
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thirdcrank
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Sep 2020, 7:59am

If we apply the tiniest bit of consideration to this, the suggestion seems to involve two - possibly more - threads on which views can be expressed supporting only one "side" of a controversial subject. This is to be ordered by some form of self-discipline. I expect the reality would be that whether by accident or design, there'd be all manner of controversial posts which could not be directly challenged. The only routes for disagreement would be either by complaining to the moderators or cumbersome cross-referencing to arguments on the other thread.

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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby Oldjohnw » 6 Sep 2020, 8:01am

I didn't get involved in the pages of angst. It sometimes descended with some into something almost like bullying - on either side.

My view remains the same: wear one if you want, don't if you don't want.
John

mattsccm
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby mattsccm » 6 Sep 2020, 12:25pm

But some one will disagree with a point thus creating a 2 sided thread.

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Mick F
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby Mick F » 6 Sep 2020, 5:27pm

Back to my OP and others of mine.

Discipline.
Stay on your side of the house.





Pointless, I feel.
I've been out-voted on this idea. :cry:
Mick F. Cornwall

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Two separate threads?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 6 Sep 2020, 8:21pm

Your suggestion has been adopted elsewhere, there are two live seatpost threads:
1 seatpost stuck
2 seatpost loose
:wink:
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