Is it time for a helmet?

For all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmet usage will be moved here.
Steady rider
Posts: 2749
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Steady rider »

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _stability

Pot-holes if not seen prior to impact, may result higher actual forces because the reaction force could apply within about 0.04 seconds compared with a quick reaction time of about 0.1 seconds, i.e. at 8m/s crossing a pot-hole of 300mm would take about 0.0375 seconds.


Page 4 shows data from hitting deep potholes and the estimated force from wearing a helmet, based on old data for heavier helmet weights than would generally be used today.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... jury_rates
There is reasonable evidence showing a higher fall off rate for helmet users. Many reasons can be suggested for the higher fall off rate.

The first step if riding over potholed surfaces regularly would be to use large wheels. Wearing a helmet will likely increase the out of balance forces and add to your risk of falling off.

I was once asked why I did not wear a helmet by a police officer and I told her, they increase the accident risk and make cycling cycling less convenient.
edit
you could add the evidence for their use is far from sound.
Last edited by Steady rider on 25 Mar 2021, 2:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
ossie
Posts: 1793
Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by ossie »

Marcus Aurelius wrote:Helmets aren’t all about protecting your head. They can also be useful aero devices, which is more important in a velodrome sprint or a road TT, but still quite useful if you are really interested in saving Watts. They also help stop possible ‘chains of escalation’. For example, you’re riding on a road, something gets flicked up, from the road, by a passing motorist, if it hits your head, it is probably going to hurt a lot more if you don’t have a lid on, than if you do. That increases the risk of you suddenly deviating from your current course, and then you have to hope nothing around you doesn’t react accordingly. I’ve been hit on the lid, by some pretty large things (stones / rocks / bits of stuff from the unswept bit of the road ) in the past, It’s my primary concern really, when road riding, and the main reason I wear a lid, when road riding.


I've never had road stuff come up and hit me on the head luckily but have been stung on several occasions by wasps / bees getting trapped in the vents. Now thats a quick stop, helmet off and a few yelps. To be fair I probably value decent eye protection on the road bike over my lid in the protection stakes. No lid when touring (unless its a legal requirement) or when pottering around town.
Steady rider
Posts: 2749
Joined: 4 Jan 2009, 4:31pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Steady rider »

I think Colin Clarke has had more research published on helmets than any other author in the UK.
https://orcid.org/0000-0002-0685-9874
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56351
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Mick F »

After my accident and was being patched up at the minor injuries unit in Tavistock, the nurse asked me if I'd been wearing a helmet. I was about to bite her head off for asking, when Mrs Mick F checked me and made me answer nicely.

Yes, I was wearing one, but I hurt my left leg and left bum cheek, and my left arm. My head never got anywhere near the tarmac.

I had been doing 30mph+ when I hit a deep pothole hidden under flowing water across the road on a straight stretch going downhill. Both wheels wrecked especially the rear which locked up the rear mudguard and I slid down the road and fell onto my left. I slid along maybe 100yds before coming to rest, still clipped in, still holding the handlebars.

The main danger I was into, was being run over.
Helmet would have been pointless ................. and I told the nurse that, but "nicely" as Mrs Mick F was in charge!

It wasn't much longer after that incident, that I stopped wearing a helmet.
Mick F. Cornwall
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by thirdcrank »

the nurse asked me if I'd been wearing a helmet.


And that's my point. If you are generally ok, you are free, subject to uxorial constraints to make your opinions known.

If you are dead or as good as, your next-of-kin may be left to make the case when the victim-blamers - eg other party's insurers - gather. It's a personal decision but enough to make my mind up. The point that the law may eventually come down on your side isn't the point imo.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Steady rider wrote:https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _stability
Pot-holes if not seen prior to impact, may result higher actual forces because the reaction force could apply within about 0.04 seconds compared with a quick reaction time of about 0.1 seconds, i.e. at 8m/s crossing a pot-hole of 300mm would take about 0.0375 seconds.


Page 4 shows data from hitting deep potholes and the estimated force from wearing a helmet, based on old data for heavier helmet weights than would generally be used today.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... jury_rates
https://nationalroadsafetyconference.or ... esearcher/

This Colin Clarke? Not the NI footballer. Think I need to do a bit of reading on this, perhaps CC's work might be a good start.
Jdsk
Posts: 24486
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Jdsk »

Tangled Metal wrote:This Colin Clarke?
I think that is the same person.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 9505
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Tangled Metal »

I got asked what state my helmet was in. Not being quick of thought when I'm tired from a long day and injured to boot I answered honestly before thinking. Immediately after saying my answer I kicked myself. I had already realised i should have honestly told them it was completely undamaged because I didn't hit my head (not because I wasn't wearing it). I knew going in I was going to get a helmet lecture if I was honest.

I am now a helmet statistic!!! The accident is recorded against non helmet wearing. :lol:
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by mjr »

thirdcrank wrote:
the nurse asked me if I'd been wearing a helmet.


And that's my point. If you are generally ok, you are free, subject to uxorial constraints to make your opinions known.

If you are dead or as good as, your next-of-kin may be left to make the case when the victim-blamers - eg other party's insurers - gather. It's a personal decision but enough to make my mind up. The point that the law may eventually come down on your side isn't the point imo.

My decision was to write down my reasoned decision not to use the infernal plastic hats somewhere that it is likely to be found if I do die, to show that I was being careful (not careless) in not using.

A careless cyclist would simply fall in line with the pressure and prejudices of the motoring majority and use a helmet, probably at a rakish angle with a dangling chin strap and another cloth hat under it!

I strongly prefer not to die over worrying about what the victim-blamers will do. Even if you head off the "they did not even use a helmet" ploy, they will simply switch to another one, such as accusing you of a suicide swerve in front of the motorist, or deliberately cycling with the sun behind you. After all, do you wear a stab vest to avoid criticism if you get knifed?
Last edited by mjr on 25 Mar 2021, 5:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
pjclinch
Posts: 5458
Joined: 29 Oct 2007, 2:32pm
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by pjclinch »

Jdsk wrote:I'd look for peer-reviewed primary studies and for reviews that follow some semblance of good practice.


Notionally, so would I... but it's easier said than done, as far as the benefit of wearing a cycle helmet to any given individual goes.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by mjr »

pjclinch wrote:
Jdsk wrote:I'd look for peer-reviewed primary studies and for reviews that follow some semblance of good practice.


Notionally, so would I... but it's easier said than done, as far as the benefit of wearing a cycle helmet to any given individual goes.

Yes, and some of the dross that has been published despite peer review doesn't fill me with optimism about the quality of what you'd find. 88%, anyone?

It is also important to think about who might be interested in funding any research. Who funds research into the benefit of helmets? Who funds research into the drawbacks? Which fund is bigger in either money or number of potential sources?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Jdsk
Posts: 24486
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Jdsk »

pjclinch wrote:
Jdsk wrote:I'd look for peer-reviewed primary studies and for reviews that follow some semblance of good practice.

Notionally, so would I... but it's easier said than done, as far as the benefit of wearing a cycle helmet to any given individual goes.

Totally agree. This is a very difficult subject.

My post was in response to the idea that reading self-promoted literature that is neither was a good starting point.

Jonathan
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by thirdcrank »

My decision was to write down my reasoned decision not to use the infernal plastic hats somewhere that it is likely to be found, to show that I was being careful (not careless) in not using.


As I wrote, it's a personal decision. I have a fire-resistant cabinet containing a copy of my will and things like my lasting powers of attorney. If I were to prepare something like that it would be in there where it couldn't be missed. My family know my wishes about all sorts but I'd not burden them with this. FWIW, in all my documents of that type, I give others maximum discretion, rather than trying to dictate how they should act.
User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 13780
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
A jet downed today over the Lizard Cornwall.

Both crew jettisoned and are not badly hurt....alive.

This is how safety gear works. ( yes I know that you could also be killed using such).

In the end its down to the individual when and were to use equipment, its your life.
It may well come down to how/if you use and your attitude which keeps you alive.
We must bear in mind that any other person has no control on how you end up (assuming that no other road user is involved) when and if and how you come to injury.
Other users forcing there will on you by physical means on the road are another matter entirely.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
Jdsk
Posts: 24486
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Jdsk »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:We must bear in mind that any other person has no control on how you end up (assuming that no other road user is involved) when and if and how you come to injury.

How can you assume that in a discussion of cycle helmets for use on roads?

Jonathan
Post Reply