Is it time for a helmet?

For all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmet usage will be moved here.
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RickH
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by RickH »

In over 45 years of cycling I've not hit my head once. I don't even think I hit my head when I was knocked off by a car in the mid 1970s & rendered unconscious, as I sustained no scrapes or bumps in the incident (I suspect, with hindsight, that it was the rotational forces as I went over the bonnet & rolled in the road on the other side as it tried to turn right across me).

I have, however, sustained some nasty bumps & scrapes to my head in the house from things like standing up when underneath a cupboard door that I forgot was open or that had swung open.

Should I be advocating helmet wearing in the house? :?
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
Steady rider
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Steady rider »

Thats absolute nonsense, isn't it?
Motor vehicle "accidents" are the biggest cause, surely?


I think they have it about right. There is other data - I will have a look for links.
https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/adv ... ition2.pdf

Many cyclists think road accidents involving vehicles must be the main issue, in fatality cases yes it is. For general injuries and it appears serious injuries, falling off is the main problem. This may be helpful in understanding how balance and factors affecting balance are quite important, e.g. helmets.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _stability
This paper consider potholes and there could be other links, will look for.
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mjr
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by mjr »

Steady rider wrote:
Thats absolute nonsense, isn't it?
Motor vehicle "accidents" are the biggest cause, surely?


I think they have it about right. There is other data - I will have a look for links.
https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/adv ... ition2.pdf

Warning: that is based on the Hospital Episode Statistics. As far as I was able to tell when investigating this 20ish years ago, while Reported Road Casualties of GB and the police reports underlying (was Stats19, now CRASH) definitely underreport cycling casualties, HES seems to overreport them. I suspect any sort of injury would be listed as a cycling injury if you had a cycle with you, even if it was something like bumping your head on a bike shed while walking back to your bike. The same does not seem to happen for motoring, with shutting your hand in a car door not being recorded as a driving injury.

That particular report is also annoying in two major ways:

1. it only lists three non-collision injury events - ice falls, skiddy surfaces and bike defects - without even saying whether those are the top three, or breaking down the injuries incurred: for the purpose of this discussion, it would be interesting to see the % of head and limb injuries from each event type;

2. despite a big focus on ice falls, it does not mention a top preventative measure against ice falls: studded tyres. Instead, it seems keener on anti-cycling messaging when ice is present.

Going back to the question, are "Non-collision cycling incidents (NCI's) are the leading cause of serious travel and transport related injury in England"? We cannot tell from this report. They may be the leading type of serious travel and transport-related injury, but that is not the same as the leading cause, which it appears might be ice.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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531colin
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by 531colin »

Statement 1.....non-collision cycling incidents are the leading cause of serious travel and transport related injury in England.
I believe that to be FALSE

Statement 2....non-collision incidents are the the most common cause of injury in cyclists
I believe that to be TRUE

Statement 3 ....motor vehicle accidents involving one or more vehicles are the leading cause of serious travel and transport related injury in England
I believe that to be TRUE

For statement 1 to be true, there would have to be more serious injuries caused by people falling off their bikes than by all motor vehicle accidents.
That can't be true, can it?
Jdsk
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Jdsk »

Same as Colin's thinking: I suspect that the wording used in at least one place refers to a subset but doesn't explicitly say so.

Jonathan
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531colin
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by 531colin »

Its wrong.
It needs to be as a minimum standard factually correct; when I was writing reports I used to aim for "incapable of (deliberate) misinterpretation."
Steady rider
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Steady rider »

I have seen Australia data suggesting serious injuries AIS 3 is more common from vehicle accidents than from falls. Data from the Netherlands suggest serious injuries due to falls are about 3 times higher than those from motor vehicle/bicycle accidents.
The actual length of stay in hospital may be much shorter from falls.

The author can be contacted and asked about the statements.
Jdsk
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Jdsk »

Steady rider wrote:The author can be contacted and asked about the statements.

As above I couldn't see any contact details on the paper or the website to which you linked.

Jonathan
Steady rider
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Steady rider »

Robert.benington@bristol.gov.uk <Robert.benington@bristol.gov.uk>;

I will send him an email, asking if he can clarify.
Jdsk
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Jdsk »

Thank you

Jonathan
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Tangled Metal »

HES reporting? Is that where they ask about your helmet if you mention a bike at all when they are taking your history. Then record it as helmet saved your life or tell you you'd not be as injured if you'd worn a helmet. In any ways your accident gets recorded as cycling injury and helmet status recorded.

Basically, IME hospitals do not distinguish between injuries where helmets aren't even capable of being any help from accidents where theoretically one could provide some benefit. So injuries where you fell onto your arm causing damage are helmet related. My son has had that and now be me. In knew it was coming and should have had an answer ready. The treage nurse short notice what state my helmet was. I should have replied it was smashed up as I was wearing it on my other elbow and it stopped me breaking both arms for sure!! Instead I said I wasn't wearing one and she interrupted to say "I bet you've learnt your lesson and will wear one from now on," then walked off before I could reply!!! Pr@t!

I have no faith in the relevance or value in hospital derived cycling data especially anything to do with helmets.
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531colin
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by 531colin »

531colin wrote:
Steady rider wrote:https://icycleweather.wixsite.com/iceandcycling/5-2-1-1

look like about 70% of admissions are due to falls?


I don't usually look at this section, but section 2.2 of this report says
"Non-collision cycling incidents (NCI's) are the leading cause of serious travel and transport related injury in England.

Thats absolute nonsense, isn't it?
Motor vehicle "accidents" are the biggest cause, surely?


Further down the page, section 3.1 ;
"cycling NCI's accounting for 19.6% of all travel and transport related admissions" (to hospital) ......so less than 20% is "the leading cause"...?
It also says that more cyclists than car occupants were admitted
There is a bar chart with another set of numbers.....
Steady rider
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Steady rider »

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... istics-hes
RAS55011: Road casualties by MAIS group for linked STATS19 and HES data, England (MS Excel Spreadsheet, 133KB)
provides details, if these included all non-traffic accidents I am unsure.

I have emailed the second author listed, first did not arrive, provided a link to the discussion, see if any clarification can be found.
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mjr
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by mjr »

Defining categories by negation seems like it could easily produce misleading conclusions.

After all, we know that "non-collision incidents" includes crashing on ice, crashing on slippery roads and injuries due to bike failure (possibly including stabbing oneself with a part while working on the bike?) but we don't know what else it includes.

Could we just as easily conclude that "non-ice-related incidents" cause the majority of injuries? Or "non-bike incidents"?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Jdsk
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Re: Is it time for a helmet?

Post by Jdsk »

mjr wrote:Defining categories by negation seems like it could easily produce misleading conclusions.

Yes. Some definitions and a classification tree would have helped.

Jonathan
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