Luck counts for more than a helmet

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pedalpower2
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Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by pedalpower2 »

In the 1950s long before helmets, I was involved in a collision with a car and woke up several hours later in hospital. However I suffered no real injury.Many years later a friend of mine was out on a windy day and was knocked off by a guy on a moped. She hit her head on the kerb and despite having a helmet was rendered blind and died a fortnight later. So take your chance, crossed fingers are probably just as helpful.
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gom
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by gom »

I agree. I was lucky to be wearing a helmet the last two times I fell off my bike.
gom
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by gom »

But sorry to hear about your friend. That was unlucky. Any action against the moped driver? Wearing a helmet removes one excuse they may have come up with. Unfair but it appears true.
Adjunct Satyr
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by Adjunct Satyr »

I suppose there are always risks either way but I feel like wearing a helmet can avoid some injuries you would otherwise sustain without wearing one.
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simonineaston
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by simonineaston »

Although I have thought about it a bit, I'm never quite sure what luck is.
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mjr
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by mjr »

gom wrote:Wearing a helmet removes one excuse they may have come up with. Unfair but it appears true.

It doesn't matter. They've got plenty more: the sun was in the wrong place (the sky?), there wasn't any sun, the cyclist swerved in front of me, ...

Adjunct Satyr wrote:I suppose there are always risks either way but I feel like wearing a helmet can avoid some injuries you would otherwise sustain without wearing one.

It can. It can also cause injuries you would otherwise avoid. The main question is which group is likely to be bigger and which matters more. Best evidence so far is that they approximately cancel each other out in size, so users are left buying an endless sequence of difficult-to-recycle cumbersome-to-carry plastic hats for no discernable benefit.
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Adjunct Satyr
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by Adjunct Satyr »

New to this. Genuinely intrigued... what injuries can wearing one cause?
New to cycling (March 2021) and enjoying every bit so far!
Cyril Haearn
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by Cyril Haearn »

A helmut makes the head bigger and heavier, more kinetic energy. One might land on the ground by a kerb, the shoulder keeps the head off the ground but a helmut might catch on the kerb, wrenching the head with unfavourable consequences. Risk compensation: wearing a helmut people think they are safer, and take more risks. Motorists 'think' a helmuted cyclist is protected and give them less room. You can read much much more about this on these fora
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pjclinch
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by pjclinch »

You also have.psychological effects: users of "safer" equipment tend to behave differently, accounting for the extra margins. For example, my touring recumbent has full suspension, hydraulic brakes and a riding position that makes going over the bars incredibly hard, while my Brompton doesn't. I go down big hills as fast as I possibly can on the 'bent, and take quite a bit of extra care on the Brom. Which is safer? And what does "safer" mean there? I'd guess I'm still more likely to exit the Brom unintentionally, but if I do lose it on the tourer I'll be going much faster, so carrying higher risk.

And so on.

Our preoccupation with helmets is mainly we keep going on about them, and that makes them seem important. Because they seem important we keep going on about them.

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Jdsk
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by Jdsk »

Adjunct Satyr wrote:New to this. Genuinely intrigued... what injuries can wearing one cause?

Welcome.

I suggest starting with the following as an introduction to the topic:

1 The need to separate:
* The effect of wearing a helmet on injury from an impact that actually happens.
* The effect of wearing a helmet on the likelihood of injury.
* The effect of mandatory wearing of helmets on the amount of cycling (some would add "pressure" to mandation). And especially deterrent effect because cycling is so beneficial for physical and mental health.
* The freedom to make our own decisions.

2 The limits to what we know, as summarised by Goldacre and Spiegelhalter:
https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3817

3 How much you care about scientific method, especially as compared to anecdote and campaigning. And then read 2 again.

4 The existence of keyboard warriors here and elsewhere. This site has to keep the topic in a specific area because people won't discuss it politely, or IMO logically.

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gom
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by gom »

Memo to self: Stop looking at helmet threads. They never end.

It’s a lovely day, time to get out on a bike.
Vorpal
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by Vorpal »

Adjunct Satyr wrote:New to this. Genuinely intrigued... what injuries can wearing one cause?

People wearing helmets in crashes have a somewhat higher incidence of neck injury. Some, but not all, are probably due to wearing the helmet incorrectly.

The other things mentioned on this thread such as risk compensation are supported by evidence, but not quantified in any way.

There is loads of information on this forum and on https://www.cyclehelmets.org/

My conclusion, as someone whose profession is analysing risk:
The benefits imparted by wearing a helmet in an incident are mostly offset by the increased risk of having an incident.
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Mick F
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by Mick F »

The other day, I was chainsawing logs.
Been doing this job to feed the fire for 20odd years. Never an issue.

However, a month ago, I bought a pair of safety welly boots as my usual wellies had worn out the soles.
Here I was chainsawing wearing my new safety boots, and I got too near the toe of the LH boot. It now has a groove in it.

Thank goodness for safety boots eh?

Question:
In all my years of chainsawing, I never got anywhere near the toe of a welly. Was it my feeling of invulnerability that allowed me to get a groove on my new safety welly?
IMG_0479.jpg
Mick F. Cornwall
ClappedOut
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by ClappedOut »

Blimey, that could have ended badly.
ClappedOut
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Re: Luck counts for more than a helmet

Post by ClappedOut »

simonineaston wrote:Although I have thought about it a bit, I'm never quite sure what luck is.

The point where skill,understanding and logic stop and blind chance a positive outcome :lol: my definition.
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