Moving a clause might make it clearer:
"
I think it's fair to say that if you always ride in a lid, it's difficult to understand just how much grief one can get for breaking with the main UK helmet culture if you always ride in a lid.
"
Moving a clause might make it clearer:
Thankyou.
I think shouted helmet advice must be rare.Jdsk wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 11:54am I find it easy to include in outgroup hatred both abuse by people who drive cars directed at people who ride HPVs and abuse by people who ride HPVs directed at people who drive cars.
But what's described above doesn't feel like that. More like the shouter's perception of what safe and what isn't in a situation where safety matters.
(BTW I don't think that I've ever seen it in person, and a lot of people on bikes in Oxford don't wear helmets.)
Jonathan
Thankyou.
Yes, in that situation I can see how that would be added in, as with the nonexistent tax. And that would fit with an outgroup frame.Mike Sales wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 12:06pmI have found that when I have had a chance to have a word with drivers who have endangered me (I usually manage this reasonably amicably) they bring up the subject of helmets. It is almost as if they think that they would not have to take as much care not to harm us if we would only wear a helmet.
- Yes, fortunately IME it is (although it mainly occurs in Oxfordshire, @jdsk )Mike Sales wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 12:06pm I think shouted helmet advice must be rare.
I brought this unwanted advice up in the context of a club run.
Most of Pj's experience is not abuse either.
Perhaps as a parent or trainer the answer is to teach kids that sometimes you have to obey rules that are silly but well-intended. It won't be the last time it happens to them in life!NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 11:55am Hi,
While all this controversy exists about whether to wear a helmet or not.
It's very difficult isn't it as a parent or as a teacher or as a trainer or even a person as part of a group.
if you're a trainer you have to go with what is regarded as correct by your employer.
Parents are stuck in the middle.
And yes I can see that a bald head will always raise eyebrows in this type of environment.
until inconclusive evidence exists on the subject which I think will be a long time coming, we just have to respect an individual's choice.
Well that's expected, it's uncommon in Bristol also, helmetless riding is far more normalised in these areas so it raises less comment from the wielrenners. Australia (and NSW specifically) exists on one end of that spectrum, the Netherlands on the other.
I can see it but it still makes little sense given the vast range of other things kids hit their heads doing where zero eyebrow raising would happen.NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 11:55am And yes I can see that a bald head will always raise eyebrows in this type of environment.
I never had it until I started riding around with children, but then? Vive la difference!
Again, the rules seem to change as soon as you have kids in there. Having someone walk in to the road pointing at you, shouting at you that you are irresponsible in front of dozens of people in a city centre, a clear act of public shaming, counts as abusive in my eyes.Most of Pj's experience is not abuse either.
Second hand anecdote, I'm afraid, but I was once told the tale of a rider who was approaching some lights and was quite pleased that the following car was being driven just as it should be, hanging back and giving him time and space.I have found that when I have had a chance to have a word with drivers who have endangered me (I usually manage this reasonably amicably) they bring up the subject of helmets. It is almost as if they think that they would not have to take as much care not to harm us if we would only wear a helmet.
If it's inconclusive evidence you want, we have plenty of that already!NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 11:55am While all this controversy exists about whether to wear a helmet or not.
It's very difficult isn't it as a parent or as a teacher or as a trainer or even a person as part of a group.
if you're a trainer you have to go with what is regarded as correct by your employer.
Parents are stuck in the middle.
And yes I can see that a bald head will always raise eyebrows in this type of environment.
until inconclusive evidence exists on the subject which I think will be a long time coming, we just have to respect an individual's choice.
I think that you might mean "conclusive".NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 11:55am... until inconclusive evidence exists on the subject which I think will be a long time coming, we just have to respect an individual's choice.
Thanks for correcting that Jonathan.Jdsk wrote: ↑29 Jul 2021, 9:16amI think that you might mean "conclusive".NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 11:55am... until inconclusive evidence exists on the subject which I think will be a long time coming, we just have to respect an individual's choice.
I hoped that this thread might stay on what we do with our heads in hot weather.
But, as always, if anyone wants to have a discussion constrained by evidence-based rules of engagement I'd be interested. The track record on this is obviously disastrous but I don't see why the future couldn't be better than the past.
Jonathan
... I didn't see any confusion.NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑29 Jul 2021, 9:43amThanks for correcting that Jonathan.Jdsk wrote: ↑29 Jul 2021, 9:16amI think that you might mean "conclusive".NATURAL ANKLING wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021, 11:55am... until inconclusive evidence exists on the subject which I think will be a long time coming, we just have to respect an individual's choice.
Hopefully people will understand I just got it the wrong way round
Or if that adult is seen as in some kind of position of authority, or if they happen to get used in promotional photography by cyclinguk or TfL etc. Then they're 'setting a bad example'.