Plastic hats for cycling

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.

The title of this board : I prefer -

Plastic Hats for Cyclists
23
53%
Cycling Helmets
15
35%
Other ( please post your suggestion )
5
12%
 
Total votes: 43

GrahamNR17
Posts: 2828
Joined: 15 Nov 2009, 6:31pm

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby GrahamNR17 » 29 Sep 2010, 6:25pm

keepontriking wrote:Simply 'Helmets'


+1

Plastic Hats suggests all helmets are bad, which isn't necessarily the case.

byegad
Posts: 3232
Joined: 3 Sep 2007, 9:44am

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby byegad » 29 Sep 2010, 6:29pm

horizon wrote:Cycle helmets (not cycling helmets)



Yawn!
"I thought of that while riding my bike." -Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail
1951 engine

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13898
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby gaz » 30 Sep 2010, 9:40am

GrahamNR17 wrote:Plastic Hats suggests all helmets are bad, which isn't necessarily the case.


Plastic Hats includes Sou'Westers. :D Would a Sou'Wester make a good helmet?

Seriously though this is the CTC forum.

The link to http://www.ctc.org.uk/helmets works fine.

The link to http://www.ctc.org.uk/plastichats is less informative.

Helmets. I rest my case. :wink:
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

kwackers
Posts: 14331
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby kwackers » 30 Sep 2010, 9:49am

Do we need one now? Can't help but notice since they've moved the 'excitement' has died down...

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1198
Joined: 14 Dec 2006, 8:27pm
Location: Lancing, West Sussex
Contact:

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby admin » 30 Sep 2010, 10:07am

Personally I call them polystyrene hats, but I agree with others that probably the most neutral but still informative board title would be just "Helmets".

That then covers car helmets, equestrian helmets, climbing helmets, and other reinforced/padded hats that people wear for certain activities. So we can discuss why cycling is particularly singled out for helmet enthusiasm, when other more dangerous activities aren't.

Edwards
Posts: 5981
Joined: 16 Mar 2007, 10:09pm
Location: Birmingham

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby Edwards » 30 Sep 2010, 10:16am

addmin I do agree with you. Is it possible to change my vote to "Helmets".

Does this include the firemans type?
Keith Edwards
I do not care about spelling and grammar

Ellieb
Posts: 843
Joined: 26 Jul 2008, 7:06pm

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby Ellieb » 30 Sep 2010, 2:32pm

If you keep this working title you might as well abandon all pretence that this is a forum for an objective unbiased view of the subject. It is perjorative & belittling. You might as well admit that this forum is a place for die-hard anti-helmeteers who come here to have thier predujices reinforced by like minded individuals. Are you going to change the name 'Campaigning & Public Policy' to 'Anti four-wheeled -planet-destroying -unsustainable transport'? If not, why not. If you want to retain any credibility for the arguments on this subject I suggest that a semblance of balance & neutrality is needed instead of childish posturing.*


* not aimed at you mods :wink:

User avatar
hubgearfreak
Posts: 8210
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 4:14pm

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby hubgearfreak » 30 Sep 2010, 2:50pm

assuming that we all accept that the benefits of helmets/plastic hats are far from proven, then this section of the forum could either give the items credence by calling them helmets or imply their worthlesness by calling them plastic hats, as illustrated in the two views below.
meic wrote:Plastic hats is what they are. Helmets is what they pretend to be and I dont see why we should do the manufacturers' mis-information for them.

Ellieb wrote:If you keep this working title you might as well abandon all pretence that this is a forum for an objective unbiased view of the subject. It is perjorative & belittling. You might as well admit that this forum is a place for die-hard anti-helmeteers who come here to have thier predujices reinforced by like minded individuals. Are you going to change the name 'Campaigning & Public Policy' to 'Anti four-wheeled -planet-destroying -unsustainable transport'? If not, why not. If you want to retain any credibility for the arguments on this subject I suggest that a semblance of balance & neutrality is needed instead of childish posturing.

interesting to note that one's calm and to the point. the other one, ironically calling us anti compulsion folks childish is a textbook throwing the dummy out of the pram tye response :lol:

perhaps the title plastic hats should remain, until their effectiveness is proven?

Ellieb wrote:Are you going to change the name 'Campaigning & Public Policy' to 'Anti four-wheeled -planet-destroying -unsustainable transport'? If not, why not.

go on, i can answer this one. is it because campaigning is about just having respect and due regard to our safety, rather than hating cars? most of us drive too, but you knew that, didn't you?

User avatar
Si
Moderator
Posts: 15083
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:37pm

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby Si » 30 Sep 2010, 2:58pm

Are you going to change the name 'Campaigning & Public Policy' to 'Anti four-wheeled -planet-destroying -unsustainable transport'?


now there's an idea....hold that thought, we'll get back to you. :wink:

Actually, the plastic hats thing was an attempt to describe exactly what they are in a neutral way: they are hats, they are made of plastic*, whereas the term 'helmet' suggests a device that gives protection: the whole point of helmet threads seems to be that a number of people don't believe that they give any worthwhile protection, thus one is prejudicing the debate from the get-go by using the title "helmets".

Just as with the participants of this thread, there is disagreement amongst the moderators as to whether the title is a good idea or whether it would be taken in the wrong way.

*in a common use sense rather than scientific sense.

User avatar
Graham
Moderator
Posts: 6100
Joined: 14 Dec 2006, 8:48pm

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby Graham » 30 Sep 2010, 3:47pm

GrahamNR17 wrote:Plastic Hats suggests all helmets are bad. . . . . .

I'd be very interested to hear the logical pathway that gets you from "Plastic hats" == "helmets are bad"

What I'm interested in here is unbundling all the cultural values and symbolism inherent in the word "helmet", by replacing it with a factually correct and entirely neutral "plastic hat".

PS. I expect anyone involved in marketing plastic hats for cyclists would be going ape if they read this*. They spend a lot of time, effort and money in loading product names with "the right messages".

* In the very unlikely event that it caught on and entered common usage.

fimm
Posts: 328
Joined: 7 Sep 2009, 3:29pm

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby fimm » 30 Sep 2010, 4:06pm

How about "lids"? I've heard it used by both cyclists and rock climbers. I really don't like "plastic hats"; it does not sound neutral.
(Incidentally you can get a good argument going on the rock climbing forum I'm on by suggesting that it is obvious that one should always wear a helmet when climbing - I am not at all suggesting that the two activies are totally analogous, and I'm certainly not claiming that anyone is likely to introduce legislation to force climbers to wear helmets, but it is an area that climbers disagree on.)
Of course it's a race...

User avatar
Si
Moderator
Posts: 15083
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:37pm

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby Si » 30 Sep 2010, 4:13pm

fimm wrote:How about "lids"? I've heard it used by both cyclists and rock climbers. I really don't like "plastic hats"; it does not sound neutral.


I'm liking that one.

User avatar
gaz
Posts: 13898
Joined: 9 Mar 2007, 12:09pm
Location: Kent, car park of England

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby gaz » 30 Sep 2010, 4:20pm

Graham wrote:What I'm interested in here is unbundling all the cultural values and symbolism inherent in the word "helmet", by replacing it with a factually correct and entirely neutral "plastic hat".


IMO anyone who remembers the Queens Silver Jubilee in 1977 will find cultural values and symbolism inherent in the phrase "plastic hat".

I'm having trouble considering any phrase to be entirely neutral.
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

User avatar
brother nathaneil
Posts: 144
Joined: 7 Apr 2010, 1:07pm
Location: Bicester, Oxon
Contact:

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby brother nathaneil » 30 Sep 2010, 4:28pm

Helmet Definitions:
"A hard hat offering protection" - Collins Dictionary
"Ceremonial or symbolic helmets (e.g., English policeman's helmet) without protective function are sometimes used." - Wikipedia

Okay, I know that you can back any point of view with a snippet from the interweb, but I do think that whether or not they offer protection* they are still referred to as helmets. If this is wrong and they are not "helmets", by law should trading standards stop every cycle shop in the country adverting them as such... or is that another thread?

ANYWAY... I like the title "HARD HATS FOR CYCLING". I think that it suggests what you want it to suggest and is about as neutral as it gets.


*To be discussed within this forum
Success is a journey, not a destination. The doing is often more important than the outcome ~ Arthur Ashe

http://www.5blokes-end2end.weebly.com

MartinC
Posts: 1840
Joined: 10 May 2007, 6:31pm
Location: Bredon

Re: Plastic hats for cycling

Postby MartinC » 30 Sep 2010, 5:13pm

Wow, what a bag of worms!

We need to find a title that fosters sensible discussion about the subject.

I totally agree with the view that until their effectiveness is proven then calling them helmets is technically incorrect and arguably colluding with the people who promote the view that they are effective. However calling them helmets is general usage and is there to be challenged by posters - putting it in the forum title alienates a section of the debate.

As a sceptic I can cope with including helmet in the title even if it sort of symbolises their mythical status. If all the helmet promoters skulk off in a hissy fit because their sacred cow's been dissed in the forum title then we'll never get the chance to question their rationale.