Should the Police get involved?

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
downfader
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Should the Police get involved?

Postby downfader » 15 Jan 2011, 10:07pm

Twice, maybe more in the press I have seen Police statements to the effect that a helmet a helmet would have saved a life or had saved a life.

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/8 ... _accident/
"Saved"

(Sorry I forget the other link :oops: )

So the big question is this - should the Police be making such a statement? I know they are extremely experienced in causation and determining fault, but this tends to be based upon sound evidence (eg seatbelts and rollcages etc). The above link, ignorning the appalling nature of other road users for a minute, shows to me something else about human nature. Someone must have acted in a way to cause this, the helmet clearly didnt protect his other injuries, injuries which could last until the day he dies (spinal, complication with joints, ligaments, etc), what good is a helmet if people act in a way that leads to injury in the first place.

irc
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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby irc » 15 Jan 2011, 10:31pm

Short answer - No. Police accident investigators are, as far as I know, trained in establishing the causes of accidents. They have no training in the capabilities of cycle helmets. Neither the police, or anyone else knows whether or not this cyclists life was saved by his helmet.

It most likely wasn't.

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1019.html
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meic
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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby meic » 15 Jan 2011, 10:47pm

A coincidence I am sure but did you notice the little helmet advert that pops up occasionally on the newspaper page.

As for the Police saying the helmet saved his life. I am sure that they can explain why they know it saved his life with the simple words "Its obvious isnt it?" with genuine puzzlement.
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snibgo
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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby snibgo » 15 Jan 2011, 10:49pm

Maybe that's why the road was closed for two hours: they were replicating the accident, with and without helmets.

Or they saw a broken helmet and leapt, in one bound, to a conclusion.

downfader
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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby downfader » 15 Jan 2011, 11:01pm

I've already tackled "road tax" this week, I might tackle this and ask a genuine question. Will wait until tomorrow after my ride (if I can get out, has been tipping down around here :cry: ) as thats when I do my best thinking. Otherwise it will end up a rant.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Jan 2011, 9:31am

On a serious note, this is one of the "confounding" factors in the reporting of cycle injuries

The "Stats 19" that forms the basis of a lot of reporting and is known by several studies to be inaccurate both in the level of reporting (someone who crashes in London and is hospitalised and dies in Essex may not appear)

Also because the Police report these then the accuracy is also debatable.

I know it may simply be an inaccurate press report, but now look at the result if this was a formal report.


In this case it is a leg injury, yet the Police report emphasises an uninjured head - We have another head injury stat, another "helmet saved my life" in fact the problem was the patient's leg

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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby downfader » 16 Jan 2011, 10:25am

Cunobelin wrote:On a serious note, this is one of the "confounding" factors in the reporting of cycle injuries

The "Stats 19" that forms the basis of a lot of reporting and is known by several studies to be inaccurate both in the level of reporting (someone who crashes in London and is hospitalised and dies in Essex may not appear)

Also because the Police report these then the accuracy is also debatable.

I know it may simply be an inaccurate press report, but now look at the result if this was a formal report.


In this case it is a leg injury, yet the Police report emphasises an uninjured head - We have another head injury stat, another "helmet saved my life" in fact the problem was the patient's leg


Right email sent. Trouble is I clicked send without actually making a copy. :x :oops: Argh!

The jist of it was reiterating how they're tested (SNELL) and that manufacturers wont garantee it in the event of a collision. I also reflected on the roadside abuse I witnessed in my collision in 2008, and that I feel its a National problem. I also reminded everyone at how recent media reports have shown that the Police dont always collect evidence properly and how cyclists are let down as a result.

It was a bit longer than I'd have wished, but points had to be raised imo.

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meic
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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby meic » 16 Jan 2011, 11:55am

My computer automatically leaves a copy in the sent box. Possibly yours does too.
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downfader
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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby downfader » 16 Jan 2011, 12:21pm

meic wrote:My computer automatically leaves a copy in the sent box. Possibly yours does too.


I used their webform as there is no email address. I should have cnp'd (have had me Dad nagging me to help him with DIY on his Landy so didnt reemember)

Slugonabike
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Re: Should the Police get involved?

Postby Slugonabike » 17 Jan 2011, 10:14am

I know that it is not the same thing, but I feel the same about comments made by well meaning A+E staff. Cyclist arrives in A+E with broken/dented helmet and is told that this saved him/her from more serious injury and, possibly, even death. Cyclist goes home and spreads this message to all and sundry. Those same staff would want evidence if similar claims were made for medication, for instance, but the need for such evidence goes out of the window for helmets because it is seen as 'common sense'.