What to say to the medics?

[meic]

If you are unlucky enough to have a crash and some medic sees it as a chance to take advantage of your vulnerable position to push some "faith based" advice.
I would like some short easy to remember comments to politely refute their suggestions and make them think a bit about what they are saying.

I would think two sets of answers, one for accidents involving a head injury and one when it doesnt.

Possibly I could have a comment in reserve for if they fail to mention a helmet if I have a head injury off the cycle?

I would like to know on what grounds they offer this advice, is it from NICE, a health circular, the highway code or the Jeremy Vine show?

[thirdcrank]

Of course I'd be wearing one, but, depending on what was said, I'd respond with the the truth along the lines "I always wear one to protect me from the victim-blamers." Depending on the tone, "Please don't patronise me" is another regular.

[Cunobelin]

If you are unlucky enough to have a crash and some medic sees it as a chance to take advantage of your vulnerable position to push some "faith based" advice.
I would like some short easy to remember comments to politely refute their suggestions and make them think a bit about what they are saying.

I would think two sets of answers, one for accidents involving a head injury and one when it doesnt.

Possibly I could have a comment in reserve for if they fail to mention a helmet if I have a head injury off the cycle?

I would like to know on what grounds they offer this advice, is it from NICE, a health circular, the highway code or the Jeremy Vine show?

We were on a course on of all things putting evidence into practice!

We had a nurse tried this in a coffee break when she saw one of the girls had cycled in without a helmet.

She was being very forceful with the moral blackmail...

My reply was to gently ask
"What evidence are you basing your advice on?

I hope you aren't basing that on Rivara and Thompson, because the Cochrane Collaboration has trashed their paper, and of course there are the BMJ articles by Wardlaw, you have read them haven't you."

Then pointed out that the whole point of the day's course was imrpoving care by basing our clinical practice on the facts and not just trotting out the old fashioned assumptions

For some reason she went quiet and forgot all about helmets, but gave myself and the offending cyclist "looks" for the rest of the day

[Richard]

I would (hopefully) just say "thank you", even if I was anti helmet. Given that someone has shown concern and consideration for me; misplaced or otherwise; I think I owe them the courtesy of a gracious response rather than be rude or sarcastic to them just because I disagreed with their point of view.

I like to put myself in the other persons position. If I had shown genuine concern for someone and they spat it back in my face how would I feel? I think I'd be angry and hurt. It might even mean I didn't show concern for someone else in the future where it would genuinely be of some benefit or comfort.

Sometimes it's necessary for us to put aside our views for a moment, however strongly held, for the sake of good manners and consideration to others. Much to my regret I don't always manage to meet that ideal.

[hubgearfreak]

richard, i'll bet the jehovah's love your constant and unending politeness and civility. good on you

[meic]

Richard,

That is exactly what I was intending to do, notice the word politely.

Or are you saying it is impossible to disagree with them without causing offence?

Interestingly the medical council has just reprimanded a doctor for his well-meaning attempts to help his patients by offering religious faith based advice.

So would answering "Nah, I dont like them" in a rather passive voice be OK.
Or "Nah, they are useless, havent you seen the evidence?"

[Richard Mann]

A bit of witter about yes they're good for head injuries but tend to exacerbate neck injuries, and it all starts getting a bit too complicated and they back off.

Hippocratic oath = do no harm = cause no neck injuries = short circuit

[Cunobelin]

Hypocritical oath surely?

[essexman]

If you are unlucky enough to have a crash and some medic sees it as a chance to take advantage of your vulnerable position to push some "faith based" advice.
I would like some short easy to remember comments to politely refute their suggestions and make them think a bit about what they are saying.

I would think two sets of answers, one for accidents involving a head injury and one when it doesnt.

Possibly I could have a comment in reserve for if they fail to mention a helmet if I have a head injury off the cycle?

I would like to know on what grounds they offer this advice, is it from NICE, a health circular, the highway code or the Jeremy Vine show?

We were on a course on of all things putting evidence into practice!

We had a nurse tried this in a coffee break when she saw one of the girls had cycled in without a helmet.

She was being very forceful with the moral blackmail...

My reply was to gently ask
"What evidence are you basing your advice on?

I hope you aren't basing that on Rivara and Thompson, because the Cochrane Collaboration has trashed their paper, and of course there are the BMJ articles by Wardlaw, you have read them haven't you."

Then pointed out that the whole point of the day's course was imrpoving care by basing our clinical practice on the facts and not just trotting out the old fashioned assumptions

For some reason she went quiet and forgot all about helmets, but gave myself and the offending cyclist "looks" for the rest of the day

I always try to just gently ask the question back, to the person, "you cycled isnt that dagerous?", "No, why do you say that", etc.... I've found this non-confrontational approach has actually converted a couple of folk to cyclists as they manage to argue themselves into the fact that cycling isnt as dangerous as they thought, now they come to think about it.

[Steady rider]

I suppose you could say 'I don't believe in helmets', research found that they increase the accident rate - 14% according to one report, research found motorists pass closer when helmeted, they make cycling less convenient, they increase neck injuries and may lead to brain damage due to rotation and increased impacts.

The product needs to be safe and effective for me to use and I am not convinced that they improve safety overall.

If you need refs just let me know

ps
I think NICE requires products to safe and effective plus cost effective before advising it.

[Guy951]

I like what my Dad's mate said to the doctor in A&E:

"What part of my right leg would have been protected by a plastic bubble tied to my head?"

[boris]

I got run over last oct. and must have had a dozen such conversations. Especially irritating when you are lying in the road with multiple injuries and bleeding spleen to be trying to remember the responses to helmet zealotry. I got some headway type having a go while I was pie-eyed on morphine in critical care and was able to explain that : I often wear a helmet depending on where and how I am travelling, i think that people should be left to choose like that and a law that intended to reduce the number of head injuries should apply first to car occupants and pedestrians even if you think that there is sufficient evidence helmets are effective (which there isn't). If you want to help cyclists having the police chase them and fine them for dubious reasons ,taking them away from motorist control measures is not the way. Finally the spectre of courts reducing the payout to injured cyclists and families because of no helmet when that would not apply for a pedestrian or motorist is not fair and would be a particularly dreadful thing. For more details see the ctc and cyclehelmets.com.
By the time I get to the end of that lot they usually get the idea I am not one of them, although I did have a helmet.

[[XAP]Bob]

That looks a bit broken - get some gaffer tape and it'll be fine

Did it even stay on (I question based on the fact that it looks like the strap has pulled through at least two of the sections of poly...)

[boris]

I think the strap was the only thing on my head when i stopped moving. It was cut off by the first aiders.
one of my ears was mashed, probably by frags of helmet being ground against it.
It's hard not to feel It gave some protection, though. I did get a large bruise on one side of my head and my sense of taste was very odd for 4 months.