Kid in Coma.. Cycle helmet compulsion..yet again

[PaulCumbria]

Certainly Hull seemingly has a lower helmet wearing ratio to most places that I know of...

Maybe it's because Hull has the most extensive network of traffic calmed 20mph roads in the country?

[Tonyf33]

Certainly Hull seemingly has a lower helmet wearing ratio to most places that I know of...

Maybe it's because Hull has the most extensive network of traffic calmed 20mph roads in the country?

Sorry but I'd have to say no it isn't.
Firstly helmet wearing in Hull has always been low, long before useless 20mph zones were introduced. From personal experience the 20mph zones make zero difference to how one feels cycling along them, I've criss crossed the city every other week this year and every visit back to visit the family over the last 20 odd years. Vehicles don't adhere to the 20mph limit and compared to other roads there is no discernable difference, in fact on some of the main arterial roads into/out the city there are pretty decent cycle lanes where traffic comes past at well over 30 and I feel safer than anywhere else.
That some are in areas where it is difficult to get up to any speed due to cars parked on both sides and bus stops every couple of hundred metres that block traffic mean that a 20 zone is pretty much negated.

[PaulCumbria]

And there was me, convinced that Hull had a better record than almost anywhere in the UK on pedestrian casualties due to its 20mph zones - still, you obviously know the place better than I do.

[Tonyf33]

And there was me, convinced that Hull had a better record than almost anywhere in the UK on pedestrian casualties due to its 20mph zones - still, you obviously know the place better than I do.

I don't know about pedestrians, I only know how I feel when buses/cars/vans et al come swishing by at 30-35mph in narrow roads that often have cars parked on both sides thus making overtaking a horrible experience. It isn't much better when one is almost being harassed by those doing 20ish and creeping up on you only to take an age to get past..
But I can only go by what I've experienced, Hull has a completely off the road cycle path network that is often used, don't see having a 20 zone as having an impact on safe cycling overall and this year has being particularly bad for cyclists been killed.
I'd ascribe a lot of reductions down to lesser traffic volumes and the falls need to be looked at in comparison to national drops not just in isolation as they are oft done) but again I just go by how I actually feel, if it felt safer I'd see increasing cycling num,bers on the road but I just don't.

maybe we need to come up with something more robust than a bit of useless paint like ensuring driving standards are better, harsher penalties, removing large vehicles from certain areas within cities, putting cycle paths on the road and reducing some roads to one way only with a complete cycleway on the other or put up speed cameras in the 20 zones to ensure the speeds are adhered to?

[Thermostat9]

Don't watch BBC Breakfast or look at their Facebook page today then... More tedious drivel from the 'compulsion' brigade.

[Steady rider]

Chris Peck on the BBC programme mentioned that cycling could be discouraged by having a helmet law but information on the long term consequences was less clear.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/p ... 201.55.pdf

page 26 provides some detail of long term cycling to school levels in NSW.

The NZ report also provides information on children cycling levels long term.
Evaluation of New Zealand’s bicycle law, detailing changes in the proportion of people cycling and changes to the accident rate. Clarke, CF, Evaluation of New Zealand’s bicycle law, NZMJ 10 February 2012, Vol 125 No 1349 http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/125-1349/5046/

The NZ Ministry of Transport stated ‘The travel surveys show that from 1989/90 to 2005/08, the average time spent cycling per week decreased from 28 minutes to 8 minutes among those aged 5–12 years and from 52 minutes to 12 minutes among those aged 13–17 years.’5 Averaging data for the two age groups implies a 75% reduction for children aged 5-17 from 40 minutes to 10 minutes per person per week.

BBC viewers could be made aware that the safety case for helmet use is still an issue in question e.g.
“Erke and Elvik stated: "There is evidence of increased accident risk per cycling-km for cyclists wearing a helmet. In Australia and New Zealand, the increase is estimated to be around 14 per cent."

[Dondare]

There has been a lot of media-generated debate about cycle-helmets recently. There is much focus on the increasing numbers of cycling injuries and deaths. Wiggins and Cavendish both, allegedly, support compulsion. I am concerned and I hope that the CTC are ready to fight hard.

[kwackers]

BBC viewers could be made aware that the safety case for helmet use is still an issue in question e.g.
“Erke and Elvik stated: "There is evidence of increased accident risk per cycling-km for cyclists wearing a helmet. In Australia and New Zealand, the increase is estimated to be around 14 per cent."

Why bother when you can roll out the emotionally charged scene of the father of a coma victim in lieu of actual facts?
At least he had the decency to say he didn't know if the helmet would have made any difference.

I was annoyed that nobody thought to ask if perhaps driver education might be in order since rather than being forced to wear a helmet I'd rather not be hit head on by a van coming the other way around a blind bend (presumably on the wrong side).

[Mark1978]

BBC viewers could be made aware that the safety case for helmet use is still an issue in question e.g.
“Erke and Elvik stated: "There is evidence of increased accident risk per cycling-km for cyclists wearing a helmet. In Australia and New Zealand, the increase is estimated to be around 14 per cent."

Why bother when you can roll out the emotionally charged scene of the father of a coma victim in lieu of actual facts?
At least he had the decency to say he didn't know if the helmet would have made any difference.

I was annoyed that nobody thought to ask if perhaps driver education might be in order since rather than being forced to wear a helmet I'd rather not be hit head on by a van coming the other way around a blind bend (presumably on the wrong side).

Indeed there was no mention of the cause of the accident or why the van hit him in the first place, just helmets helmets helmets. Personally I do wear a helmet but the constant focus on helmets as the solution to cyclists safety to the exclusion of everything else is damaging.

[Thermostat9]

Indeed there was no mention of the cause of the accident or why the van hit him in the first place, just helmets helmets helmets. Personally I do wear a helmet but the constant focus on helmets as the solution to cyclists safety to the exclusion of everything else is damaging.

I would very much like to hear the drivers side of this story. I have a feeling that it would not be quite as cut and dried as it is being painted.....

I also wonder if the father is being pushed somewhat to press his 'helmets should be compulsory' comment by the media (rather than the other way round)

[TonyR]

Chris Peck on the BBC programme mentioned that cycling could be discouraged by having a helmet law but information on the long term consequences was less clear.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/p ... 201.55.pdf

page 26 provides some detail of long term cycling to school levels in NSW.

The NZ report also provides information on children cycling levels long term.
Evaluation of New Zealand’s bicycle law, detailing changes in the proportion of people cycling and changes to the accident rate. Clarke, CF, Evaluation of New Zealand’s bicycle law, NZMJ 10 February 2012, Vol 125 No 1349 http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/125-1349/5046/

The NZ Ministry of Transport stated ‘The travel surveys show that from 1989/90 to 2005/08, the average time spent cycling per week decreased from 28 minutes to 8 minutes among those aged 5–12 years and from 52 minutes to 12 minutes among those aged 13–17 years.’5 Averaging data for the two age groups implies a 75% reduction for children aged 5-17 from 40 minutes to 10 minutes per person per week.

If you delve into the Australian data too you find that cycling by female teenagers decreased by 90% on the passing of their mandatory helmet law. At a time when we've just learnt that half of seven year olds are sedentary and a third of our children leaving primary school are obsese, that is the last thing we want to happen.

[irc]

Indeed there was no mention of the cause of the accident or why the van hit him in the first place................... I have a feeling that it would not be quite as cut and dried as it is being painted.....)

Reminds me of the Troy Parker case. Cyclist with faulty brake rides off pavement into path of car - solution - helmet law?

http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/wiki/Troy_Parker/

[Steady rider]

I think a mention was made of a narrow road and bend and a head on collision. The focus of the story should have been the location and the vehicle and cyclist position and speed.
Does any of the reports provide these detail?
Local cyclists may have some experience to add details.

[bovlomov]

Reminds me of the Troy Parker case. Cyclist with faulty brake rides off pavement into path of car - solution - helmet law?

Somewhere out there, in filthy holes in the ground, there are people who lie in wait. They only emerge from their stinking pits when they hear news of a cyclist being killed. They then embark on a slimy trail of TV studios, radio studios and newspaper offices, to demand with barely disguised glee* that bicycle helmets should be "made legal".

Strangely, this happens even if the victim was wearing a helmet.

EDIT: Actually, I've been told that each time a cyclist dies they perform little jigs of delight, before putting on their black ties and armbands and contorting their faces into mournful and earnest shapes for the cameras. I'd tell you more about these fiends, if I didn't think it would be moderated.

[Dondare]

Reminds me of the Troy Parker case. Cyclist with faulty brake rides off pavement into path of car - solution - helmet law?

Somewhere out there, in filthy holes in the ground, there are people who lie in wait. They only emerge from their stinking pits when they hear news of a cyclist being killed. They then embark on a slimy trail of TV studios, radio studios and newspaper offices, to demand with barely disguised glee* that bicycle helmets should be "made legal".

Strangely, this happens even if the victim was wearing a helmet.

EDIT: Actually, I've been told that each time a cyclist dies they perform little jigs of delight, before putting on their black ties and armbands and contorting their faces into mournful and earnest shapes for the cameras. I'd tell you more about these fiends, if I didn't think it would be moderated.

That is probably true about some of them. There is a nest of such creatures at the Daily Mail, for instance. However, it's those with no axe to grind that can be all too influential, such as the parents of victims and high-profile cyclists such as Wiggins and Cavendish.