cycle to school contract

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Adam S
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby Adam S » 17 Oct 2013, 3:36pm

Edwards wrote:Why do the public think that members of staff at a school are responsible for the behaviour of the pupils before and after the school day is not clear to me.

Maybe it's what they were brought up to believe when they passed through the school system? Our school was very insistent upon uniform being worn smartly on the way to/from school and it wasn't unheard of for detentions to result (BTW, I'm talking the 1990s here rather than the 1950s). It's difficult. I can understand why the school has some responsibility (eg. for traffic problems caused just outside the school gates caused by parents picking up children) and I would expect a teacher to raise the issue if he became aware of a child cycling a bike which was in a dangerous condition (had no brake etc.). However, the number of complaints you seem to have received is unjustified and goes a long way to explain why schools sometimes see children cycling to school as more hassle than it's worth

Thermostat9
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby Thermostat9 » 17 Oct 2013, 4:12pm

Slightly off topic, but my cousin and her children live in 'the coutryside' about 4 miles from their school. She (and I) had a lovely childhood where we would go out in the morning, might cycle 8 miles to our grandmothers house, and cycle home again without ever bothering to tell our parents what was happening (this was late 60's early 70's when we were between 9 and 13 years old*) She thought her children ought to have the same sort of experiences, so her children, when they wanted to, were encouraged to cycle to school.

All was well until she had a visitation from a group of other parents in the area. Seems that these parents were being badgered to let their children cycle to the school and they were not at all happy! They asked her to stop letting them cycle there as it was 'dangerous'.

Needless to say, she didn't! Eventually the boys reported that the other parents had set up a 'cycling bus' with all the children in dayglo wearing helmets shepherded to and from the school with a parent leading and following the group! They thought this was funny! (So did I!)

Several years later the boys are young adults and far more self reliant and aware than many youngsters today. :D


(* We lived just outside Bristol at the time and I remember a group of us cycling to Clevedon and back. This has to be before 1974 - when I was 13 - as we moved then. I guess not too many groups of 12 year olds have 20 mile explorations 'on their own' these days :( )

Mark1978
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby Mark1978 » 17 Oct 2013, 4:13pm

We were told by the teachers at school (again 1990's) that they had a degree of legal responsibility for you between school and you getting home. Plus regardless of that while you're in uniform you're representing the school.

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meic
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby meic » 17 Oct 2013, 4:53pm

When I did my teacher training in 1993 I was told that we were "in loco parentis" for the children not just while they were at school but for the journey to and from school as well. I remember thinking back then that this was absurd, especially for the journey to school.

I can see that a teacher may be obliged to act if they are present and a parent isnt but to try and over rule a parent's responsibility is going too far.

It isnt just cycling though, I had to go through some arguments and eventually write out letters instructing the school transport to allow my son (aged about 7 or 8 ) to walk home from the bus stop on his own.
Yma o Hyd

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mjr
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby mjr » 17 Oct 2013, 5:18pm

meic wrote:When I did my teacher training in 1993 I was told that we were "in loco parentis" for the children not just while they were at school but for the journey to and from school as well. I remember thinking back then that this was absurd, especially for the journey to school.

About the same time, I think I was told that only applied once children had boarded school transport in the morning and ended after we disembarked at the end of the day, after I had a bit of trouble at the bus stop waiting to go to school.

Actually, the school bus is why I started cycling further and regularly! The congestion from the nearby expanding city was so bad that I did not want to rely on the bus getting me to exams on time. I knew it was possible to ride that far all year round because my father rode to work at a factory across the road from the school... and I've never really stopped riding since.

So those of you who are fighting to allow children to ride to school without stupid restrictions, I thank you and wish you all the best with it.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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pjclinch
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby pjclinch » 17 Oct 2013, 5:30pm

Edwards wrote:Why do the public think that members of staff at a school are responsible for the behaviour of the pupils before and after the school day is not clear to me.


When I was a schoolboy it was made very clear to me and my peers that when we wore the school's uniform we were representing the school and were expected to behave accordingly well. If there were incidents outside school involving pupils then the school would act on complaints and disciplinary action taken if the actions were felt to bring the school in to disrepute.

A couple of years ago I was cycling home escorting my two children on the road when a bampot in P7 rode his bike off the kerb without looking and came within inches of knocking my daughter off. I asked him to stop, and having been ignored I told him to stop and Had Words, and got some attitude and cheek back for my trouble. We knew who he was and I complained to the school, on the basis of how it used to work for me. School said they couldn't do anything. Me frankly not impressed with that, and I had effectively no comeback for a child behaving that way.

So that's why I think that.

But of course that's not the same as expecting the school to be looking after their safety etc. off the premises.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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hubgearfreak
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby hubgearfreak » 17 Oct 2013, 6:28pm

Edwards wrote:The point of these types of contract is to attract the type of parent and pupil you want to use bikes to get to school. It is after all to nobodies advantage if a pupil rides out into the road into the path of a car because they have no brakes.


it wasn't the bit about brakes that irked me

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Cunobelin
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby Cunobelin » 17 Oct 2013, 7:59pm

Edwards wrote:Complaint from parent that I would not let a child ride home on his bike with no brakes.


Heard of a similar version where the Head had a word with the local Community PC

Called the parents to school to collect the bike which they then let little Johnny ride home...... or at least into the arms of the local Constable who then had "a word" with the parents about the bike's condition, their responsibilities and made them walk the bike

snibgo
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby snibgo » 17 Oct 2013, 8:11pm

Adam S wrote:I can understand why the school has some responsibility (eg. for traffic problems caused just outside the school gates caused by parents picking up children) ...

Funny you should say that. My local primary, which is next door to me, denies all responsibility for traffic problems beyond saying that they regularly send newsletters to parents asking them to behave.

I took the problems to the County Council, on the basis that they are responsible for both the roads and the school. They said it was a police matter. The police sometimes turn up and the parents then behave perfectly, for that day.

Steady rider
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby Steady rider » 31 Oct 2013, 9:30pm

I emailed the County Council asking about enforcement.

It seems their is no legal basis, they say

" In the last few years we have suggested to schools we’ve been working with that they might like to consider implementing a cycle permit scheme (indeed many already do this). For schools it allows them to:

· Communicate basic rules to pupils about cycle parking, encouraging consideration and responsibility

· Monitor numbers of bikes and scooters and perhaps tie this to rewards for pupils who take regular exercise

· Keep the school grounds safe and tidy

Schools are encouraged to have this compliment their agreed policies, but ultimately it’s up to the school to decide how to implement these schemes. Ideally we like to see children gently encouraged to cycle to school when and if ready and would not advocate compulsion of any kind.

As part of continuous improvement to our schools support we’ve recently had a refresh of the information on our web pages. Although these schemes do not currently feature, we still consider that some schools may consider them good practice."

Note "would not advocate compulsion of any kind"

It has been reported about children being expelled for refusing to wear helmets, see Discussion http://www.ta.org.br/site/Banco/7manuai ... helmet.pdf
"In 1997 it was reported that school children from near Derby
in the UK were asked to wear helmets when cycling
to school (GMTV). This resulted in some of them
being expelled after refusing to wear them and
other children had given up cycling to school."

Mark1978
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby Mark1978 » 1 Nov 2013, 11:18am

Expelled for refusing to wear a helmet. A decent lawyer could have a field day with that.

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meic
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby meic » 1 Nov 2013, 11:44am

I wasnt there and dont know the details of the case but you cant get rid of any kids that easily.

I think it more likely that that was one item on a much longer list but as I say I wasnt there and dont know that particular case.
Yma o Hyd

Steady rider
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby Steady rider » 1 Nov 2013, 11:57am

Perhaps cyclists from around Derby could have more details?

http://www.tvrage.com/shows/id-7052/episodes/703698

If anyone can access the programme for the 2 Dec 97 this may provide details.

Mark1978
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby Mark1978 » 1 Nov 2013, 12:07pm

meic wrote:I wasnt there and dont know the details of the case but you cant get rid of any kids that easily.

I think it more likely that that was one item on a much longer list but as I say I wasnt there and dont know that particular case.


Quite. It would have to be a kid with a history of misbehaviour was told he has to wear a helmet and then in response starts hitting the teachers with a pedal spanner - or something equally mental.

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meic
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Re: cycle to school contract

Postby meic » 1 Nov 2013, 12:17pm

I suppose there is another possible scenario which I never had the experience of. Possibly the child and headmaster had a stand off with both refusing to back down on principle, then the child could possibly be expelled for persistent refusal to obey, rather than just being caught repeatedly not wearing a helmet.

It would be a pretty bull-headed headmaster that would lose a pupil over such an issue but some headmasters are like that, as keeping discipline is very important to them.
Yma o Hyd