London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

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ArMoRothair
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London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby ArMoRothair » 18 Nov 2013, 11:54am

I don't know if you can trust everything reported on LBC but prima facie it sounds like cyclists are being stopped this morning for not wearing helmets, amongst other reasons.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/police-catching-cy ... -law-81518

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meic
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby meic » 18 Nov 2013, 12:04pm

The Police have form for stopping cyclists not wearing helmets.

The Police's role is wider than crime and punishment, they can offer people advice on all sorts of things like fitting locks on your windows, that is what they are doing in this case, it is a road safety measure rather than a clampdown on crime.

If they were to stop me to offer advice on helmets, I would just debate the point with them until they decided they had better things to do with their time.

I have been stopped in my motorcycle combination and given similar advice about my non helmeted passenger.
Yma o Hyd

Adam S
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby Adam S » 18 Nov 2013, 12:07pm

Cyclists who were seen not wearing a helmet were educated by police on the safety benefits of wearing one, but were not issued with a fine as this is not a requirement by law.

Worrying, but there's no use complaining. They'd just point to the highway code and who can criticise the police for repeating advice in the highway code? Obviously we can, but can't see it going anywhere. It's unbelievable that getting cyclists to wear headgear is their priority right now

Wouldn't it be much better if instead of
Police have stopped hundreds of cyclists who were breaking the law, following a string of deaths in London


it had said

Police have stopped hundreds of road users who were breaking the law, following a string of deaths in London

kwackers
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby kwackers » 18 Nov 2013, 12:12pm

Surely the real story on that page is:

As well as cyclists, 20 HGVs were stopped and 60 offences were found to be committed, including vehicles in dangerous condition and drivers who had been working too long.

3 offences per HGV? :shock:

Mark1978
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby Mark1978 » 18 Nov 2013, 12:14pm

Can police legally stop you for not wearing a helmet? Or can they just stop you for no reason at all?

In any case if you've committed no offence I would expect they couldn't delay you for an unreasonable length of time.

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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby Adam S » 18 Nov 2013, 12:15pm

kwackers wrote:3 offences per HGV? :shock:

Says it all doesn't it? Now put on your magic hat...

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meic
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby meic » 18 Nov 2013, 12:58pm

Chief-Superintendent Glyn Jones, who is in charge of the operation, told us: "If you're going to cycle in London, wear a helmet, wear high-vis, make sure your bike has the right lights, don't wear headphones and obey the rules of the road


That could open a can of worms couldnt it?

However it appears the Police are pragmatically accepting any lights that offer even vaguely similar benefits to a BS lamp.

Possibly because they havent a clue, or care, what the regulations state.
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meic
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby meic » 18 Nov 2013, 1:01pm

Unfortunately because of the helmet sub-forum, even the CTC Forum has managed to reduce the Police reaction to a run of deaths on London's roads caused by HGVs, to a helmet ghetto just because the Police raised that Red Herring. :evil: :evil:
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Pugwash
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby Pugwash » 18 Nov 2013, 2:46pm

Ask for their badge no - cycle off - report them for harresment.

Mark1978
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby Mark1978 » 18 Nov 2013, 3:00pm

Pugwash wrote:Ask for their badge no - cycle off - report them for harresment.


Unless they are repeatedly stopping you, I don't think waving you down to give you some advice constitutes harassment.

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ArMoRothair
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby ArMoRothair » 18 Nov 2013, 3:48pm

Jenny Jones has asked for people to contact her if they have been fined for 'not accepting advice'

https://twitter.com/GreenJennyJones/sta ... 8720267264

The fact she has asked supposes she has received some reports of this happening.

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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby snibgo » 18 Nov 2013, 4:12pm

Mark1978 wrote:Can police legally stop you for not wearing a helmet? Or can they just stop you for no reason at all?

They can stop you for any reason or none at all. RTA 1988 s163:
(1)A person driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road must stop the vehicle on being required to do so by a constable in uniform or a traffic officer.
(2)A person riding a cycle on a road must stop the cycle on being required to do so by a constable in uniform or a traffic officer.
(3)If a person fails to comply with this section he is guilty of an offence.

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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby Mark1978 » 18 Nov 2013, 4:30pm

Thanks; as I suspected. I then wonder how long it's reasonable for an officer to delay you?

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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby snibgo » 18 Nov 2013, 4:57pm

I don't think there's a simple answer to that. I've never been on a bike and stopped by a copper. If I was I'd probably listen carefully and answer any questions. If the PC offered advice I'd listen and thank him/her for the advice. If I thought it was bad advice would I say so? Dunno. It would probably depend on whether I was in a hurry and how receptive I thought the PC might be.

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Mick F
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Re: London: police stopping cyclists for not wearing helmets

Postby Mick F » 18 Nov 2013, 5:09pm

I was in my Mini driving back to Portsmouth many many years ago before the bypasses and the modern routes. I used to take the road from the M5 and through Cheltenham and Cirencester down to Swindon etc.

It was 01:00 ish on a Monday morning and I'd come into Cirencester and turned right through the town centre when I saw a flashlight being moved this way and that along the pavement. I slowed down, then thought about it, then in my rear-view mirrors saw a couple of people in dark clothing running after me and shining their torch at me.

As it turns out, it was two coppers. They remonstrated with me for not stopping when required to do so by a uniformed police officer ........ or somesuch phrase. I told them that I didn't know they were police officers. How could I tell? I asked. They had no answer to this, and I rammed home my point that if they wanted to stop me, they should have been in the road under a street light so they could be seen.

BTW, I was 19 or 20 and rather arrogant. :D

They checked over my Mini, I showed them my DL and stuff, and off I went.

I wonder what would have happened had I not stopped.
What would they have done?
I could categorically deny that I'd seen them trying to flag me down.

Ditto on a bike.
Unless they stand in your way, and unless you can positively see that they are Police, and unless they can positively see that they have got a reaction, they haven't got a leg to stand on.
Mick F. Cornwall