The way skiing is going

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TonyR
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The way skiing is going

Post by TonyR »

The Ski Club has a section up on its website about looking after your safety following all the media recently. It says, inter alia,

Following Michael Schumacher’s accident his doctor Professor Jean-Francois Payen asserted "We think his helmet did help, without a helmet he wouldn't be here now”. And so the helmet debate rages on. Ultimately, you are free to make your own decision regarding helmets, but they are gradually becoming the norm on the slopes, as skiers and snowboarders acknowledge the benefits that they can provide in the event of a fall.

Spine protectors are also becoming more commonplace, especially amongst off-piste skiers, while many freestyle skiers and riders wear padded ‘impact shorts’ under their trousers. That’s not to say that everybody should be padded up to the eyeballs, but depending on the type of riding you do and where you do it, it’s something worth considering. Sales of ABS rucksacks or avalanche airbag devices are on the rise too, and while expensive, they are increasingly being seen as a key piece of safety kit for off piste and backcountry skiers.


Do I really need to get fully armoured up just to go out for an enjoyable run down the mountains? Its sad that the simple enjoyment is being taken out of such activities by exaggerated safety demands (IMHO)
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pjclinch
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by pjclinch »

Just defer to Proper Skiing, where even the German Chancellor breaking her bottom hasn't resulted in loud calls for armoured protection for anyone even thinking about it.

Not only safer but less crowded, less noisy, more sociable, more cake stops at less crowded cafes and as long as you can be bothered to get up the hills under your own steam (and since we're cyclists here we probably can) it's actually more fun. And while not nearly as quick, 15 mph on skinny skis connected at the toes to glorified carpet slippers feels as fast and exciting as about 50 on modern alpine gear...

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PaulB
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by PaulB »

I can understand why some skiers and snowboarders wear padded impact shorts under their trousers. A couple of years ago I tried my hand at snowboarding at Manchester's "Chill Factore". It was great fun but I did spend a lot of time on my bottom! Falling onto hard snow and hitting your sit bones is not nice. It was months before I could sit down properly!
TonyR
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by TonyR »

pjclinch wrote:Just defer to Proper Skiing, where even the German Chancellor breaking her bottom hasn't resulted in loud calls for armoured protection for anyone even thinking about it.


Ah but Lewis Hamilton not falling on his bottom, or anything at all really, led to loud calls for him to wear armour on his head while Proper Skiing.
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PaulCumbria
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by PaulCumbria »

Meanwhile up here in Lakeland, the prevalence of people taking to the high fells without the basic gear seems to be on the increase. Nothing more than a photo of a map on your mobile phone seems to be the safety equipment of choice these days - why are we so schizophrenic when it comes to personal safety?
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Neilo
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by Neilo »

PaulCumbria wrote:Meanwhile up here in Lakeland, the prevalence of people taking to the high fells without the basic gear seems to be on the increase. Nothing more than a photo of a map on your mobile phone seems to be the safety equipment of choice these days - why are we so schizophrenic when it comes to personal safety?


I think it comes from the general attitude of a lot of peopple today of not taking any responsibility for their own actions. "Someone should do something about it" instaed of "I'll do something ablut it"

"Oh I'm lost, I'll just call Mountain rescue" rather than "Oh I'm lost, I've got a map, I'll work out where i've gone wrong, and get off the hill myself"
I know it is generalising, but you hear all sorts of tales from the media of people doing all sorts of dull things on the hills.

I don't think they realise we have day jobs and lives of our own (16 years in MR)
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Tonyf33
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by Tonyf33 »

Neilo wrote:"Oh I'm lost, I'll just call Mountain rescue" rather than "Oh I'm lost, I've got a map, I'll work out where i've gone wrong, and get off the hill myself"
I know it is generalising, but you hear all sorts of tales from the media of people doing all sorts of dull things on the hills.

I don't think they realise we have day jobs and lives of our own (16 years in MR)
Teams policy is not to criticise publically, but privately it's :evil: :evil: :evil:


A few years ago walked up Scafell Pike with the missus, nice enough september day (though heavy rainfall previous day or so) with mist well below the peak. Got to the top and a chap with all the gear and no idea (Berghaus jacket, gators, walking poles, you get the picture :roll: ) walks towards me and asks "which way off to get to such and such a car park".."dunno mate have a look at your route map & check your compass so you know which direction to head off from", his response...I don't have one. I just thought how irresponsible and what a berk :evil:
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Neilo
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by Neilo »

Happens more often than you think, most of them get away with it.
Get that sort of thing all the time all over the country.
I was on Crinkle Crags once, struck up a conversation with a guy. He said what on earth do you want a rucksack that big for. It was 40L and not full, where as his was the size of a sandwich box. I said to him. Ok so what happens if you fall over and break your ankle. Al smug he said "Call Mountain Rescue". And I said. "All well and good, but you'll die of hypothermia before they get here, cos you've got nothing in you sack to keep you warm, I've got enough to be self sufficient and keep my self alive sould I have a problem"
He had a glazed look in his eye, so I don't know if the message got through or not.
Gone a bit off topic.

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Steady rider
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by Steady rider »

http://fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fulltext ... ycling.pdf

the relative risk of cycling compared to other sports may be of interest, skiing risk would be interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/sport ... .html?_r=2
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ArMoRothair
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by ArMoRothair »

Neilo wrote:Happens more often than you think, most of them get away with it.
Get that sort of thing all the time all over the country.
I was on Crinkle Crags once, struck up a conversation with a guy. He said what on earth do you want a rucksack that big for. It was 40L and not full, where as his was the size of a sandwich box. I said to him. Ok so what happens if you fall over and break your ankle. Al smug he said "Call Mountain Rescue". And I said. "All well and good, but you'll die of hypothermia before they get here, cos you've got nothing in you sack to keep you warm, I've got enough to be self sufficient and keep my self alive sould I have a problem"
He had a glazed look in his eye, so I don't know if the message got through or not.
Gone a bit off topic.


I've always belonged to the 'travel light, travel fast' camp. I have frequently gone on the hills with a tiny day-pack.

But there was one time I was setting off up Tryfan with a couple of mates and for no reason I can understand I threw an expedition weight duvet jacket into my bag. It was the size of a decent sleeping bag and I would never wear it walking; it'd be too hot.

Half way up someone above dislodged some rocks and we took shelter as best we could. I saw one of them, the size of a car battery, bouncing off my mate John's foot. It was badly mangled and only avoided amputation later that day in Bangor A&E because he had been wearing Koflach plastic boots and they afforded him that little bit extra protection. Anyway, it was a long cold wait for Oggy MR, and a bit longer for the Sea King when they decided John had to be lifted out.

We were so glad of that jacket.
TonyR
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by TonyR »

Neilo wrote:
PaulCumbria wrote:Meanwhile up here in Lakeland, the prevalence of people taking to the high fells without the basic gear seems to be on the increase. Nothing more than a photo of a map on your mobile phone seems to be the safety equipment of choice these days - why are we so schizophrenic when it comes to personal safety?


I think it comes from the general attitude of a lot of peopple today of not taking any responsibility for their own actions. "Someone should do something about it" instaed of "I'll do something ablut it"

"Oh I'm lost, I'll just call Mountain rescue" rather than "Oh I'm lost, I've got a map, I'll work out where i've gone wrong, and get off the hill myself"
I know it is generalising, but you hear all sorts of tales from the media of people doing all sorts of dull things on the hills.

I don't think they realise we have day jobs and lives of our own (16 years in MR)
Teams policy is not to criticise publically, but privately it's :evil: :evil: :evil:


I don't know how much of a problem mountain bikers are but a lot of them seem to set off into the mountains without much idea of mountain craft.
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pjclinch
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by pjclinch »

TonyR wrote:
pjclinch wrote:Just defer to Proper Skiing, where even the German Chancellor breaking her bottom hasn't resulted in loud calls for armoured protection for anyone even thinking about it.


Ah but Lewis Hamilton not falling on his bottom, or anything at all really, led to loud calls for him to wear armour on his head while Proper Skiing.


True...

But at least if you go and try it nobody else there will be either wearing one or tutting at you for not wearing one either. Your chances of censorship by the Daily Wail will be almost zero.

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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by Vorpal »

I have to wonder if the sort of extremes in how we regard risk isn't just the natural result of the 'packed in cotton wool' syndrome.

It's like this.... Many people grow up being protected from all of the risks that we can protect them from (i.e. kids aren't allowed to climb trees because they may fall out and hurt themselves). They don't learn to judge risk appropriately. The consequence of that is extremes. Some will treat a climb up Ben Nevis like they're going for a walk in the country park. Others will armour themselves to the nth degree for any vaguely risky activity, yet others simply won't do them. They won't cycle or ski because it's 'dangerous'.
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by Geriatrix »

There is one big difference in the skiing helmet vs. cycle helmet debate and that is what impact helmet compulsion will make. As a leisure activity, I suspect not that much. Those that want to ski will do so anyway, with or without helmet.

With bicycles its different because its not just a leisure activity. Its the utility rather than leisure cycling that will make a real impact on cycling numbers and for that you make it as safe and as easy as possible for anyone to just climb on a bike and go from A to B without donning any special protection or clothing.
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Re: The way skiing is going

Post by Steady rider »

Words like 'dangerous', it probably means anything that may result in injury. Its the level of risk that should be used in association with an activity.

Dangerous, hazardous, risky, unsafe, perilous, precarious, insecure, tricky, unpredictable, uncertain, medium risk, low-risk. Risk per million hour. It is easier to say its dangerous than try to quantify the risk.

Trying to work out the actual risk level and trying to assess if a helmet may provide enough positives or add in extra negatives to a particular activity is part of the problem. Cycling has positive health benefits so if helmets provide a positive or negative contribution comes secondary to health considerations.
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