Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

For all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmet usage will be moved here.
Steady rider
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby Steady rider » 3 Dec 2017, 9:24pm

Adding a sentence to the ‘Introduction’,
“However, liability should not be based on wearing extra safety aids in the case of pedestrians and cyclists.” and revising Rule 59, omitting ’should’ as below.

Rule 59
https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82
Rewording Rule 59,
Clothing.
• Wear appropriate clothes for cycling. Avoid clothes which may get tangled in the chain, or in a wheel or may obscure your lights
• Wear light-coloured or fluorescent clothing which helps other road users to see you in daylight and poor light
• Wear reflective clothing and/or accessories (belt, arm or ankle bands) in the dark.
• If wearing a cycle helmet please ensure it conforms to current regulations, is the correct size and securely fastened (evidence for the safety benefits of helmets is still under consideration).


Is the above suitable changes to the Code?

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby The utility cyclist » 3 Dec 2017, 11:19pm

Steady rider wrote:
Adding a sentence to the ‘Introduction’,
“However, liability should not be based on wearing extra safety aids in the case of pedestrians and cyclists.” and revising Rule 59, omitting ’should’ as below.

Rule 59
https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82
Rewording Rule 59,
Clothing.
• Wear appropriate clothes for cycling. Avoid clothes which may get tangled in the chain, or in a wheel or may obscure your lights
• Wear light-coloured or fluorescent clothing which helps other road users to see you in daylight and poor light
• Wear reflective clothing and/or accessories (belt, arm or ankle bands) in the dark.
• If wearing a cycle helmet please ensure it conforms to current regulations, is the correct size and securely fastened (evidence for the safety benefits of helmets is still under consideration).


Is the above suitable changes to the Code?

NO!
total removal with ref hi-vis, helmets and reflectives unless applied equally to cars/vans/HGVs etc and their drivers :twisted:

Warin61
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby Warin61 » 4 Dec 2017, 3:07am

The utility cyclist wrote:
Steady rider wrote:NO!
total removal with ref hi-vis, helmets and reflectives unless applied equally to cars/vans/HGVs etc and their drivers :twisted:


Yet to sight a car wearing a helmet :lol:

If these 'rules' were applied to pedestrians then it would apply to drivers and passengers as soon as they leave their vehicles. That would include trains, planes and ferries. It would also apply to Police Officers, and they would need to set an example.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby The utility cyclist » 4 Dec 2017, 5:53am

Warin61 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
Steady rider wrote:NO!
total removal with ref hi-vis, helmets and reflectives unless applied equally to cars/vans/HGVs etc and their drivers :twisted:


Yet to sight a car wearing a helmet :lol:

If these 'rules' were applied to pedestrians then it would apply to drivers and passengers as soon as they leave their vehicles. That would include trains, planes and ferries. It would also apply to Police Officers, and they would need to set an example.

the HC should recommend motorists wear helmets INSIDE their vehicles, it should recommend hi-vis colours for ALL vehicles and reflectives, given the millions of collisions between motors and tens of thousands of serious head injuries from motorvehicle ooccupants it's MORE appropriate than for bicylists

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Cunobelin
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby Cunobelin » 4 Dec 2017, 6:31am

It always amuses me when I nip down to the local Asda / Lidl/Tesco Supermarkets

They have risk assessments in place where any employee in the parking areas needs to wear HiViz

Surely in that case it is a no-brainer for all customers facing the same dangers to wear them as well?

Either the car park is dangerous enough too need HiViz.... or it isn't

Same with teh Highway Code, either HiViz should be universal or not

It will of course prove pointless.

Yesterday in Portsmouth - Ambulance in bright HiViz, blue lights and siren. Yet still A BMW pulled out of a junction in front of it causing it to brake and slow down

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661-Pete
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby 661-Pete » 4 Dec 2017, 6:59am

The utility cyclist wrote:it should recommend hi-vis colours for ALL vehicles and reflectives
That's me snookered then.

My car is black..... :roll: :|
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Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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661-Pete
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby 661-Pete » 4 Dec 2017, 7:06am

Cunobelin wrote:It always amuses me when I nip down to the local Asda / Lidl/Tesco Supermarkets

They have risk assessments in place where any employee in the parking areas needs to wear HiViz
Funny you should bring that up. Never occurred to me before, but yes, every time we pass one of the 'trolley jockeys' (as I refer to them) rounding up abandoned trolleys, they're always clad in yellow jacket. Mind you, they have an immense 'crocodile' of twenty or more trolleys jammed together, to manoeuvre between the cars, so I suppose that puts them more 'at risk'.

*Thinks*. Should the trolleys be painted bright yellow, too? After all they represent a hazard to motorists and others in the car park.

Of course, if our local Tesco's introduced a coin-deposit system for their trolleys - as many other supermarkets do - that would solve a few problems.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

millimole
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby millimole » 4 Dec 2017, 8:34am

The utility cyclist wrote:NO!
total removal with ref hi-vis, helmets and reflectives unless applied equally to cars/vans/HGVs etc and their drivers :twisted:


Of course complete removal of references to HiVis and helmets should be the goal, but it ain't gonna happen in the next revision.
The best we can hope for is a written acknowledgement of the lack of proven efficacy of helmets, and perhaps a change from 'should wear a helmet' to something like ' you may choose to wear a helmet for some types of cycling'.
I seriously hope that CUK/CTC & BC have got all their ducks in line to challenge first of all the current proposed review, and then to deal with the next review of the HC. I feel the review will feed strongly into the HC review so the response (for anti-compulsion) needs to be as strong as possible.


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AlaninWales
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby AlaninWales » 4 Dec 2017, 11:18am

661-Pete wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:it should recommend hi-vis colours for ALL vehicles and reflectives
That's me snookered then.

My car is black..... :roll: :|

https://www.reference.com/vehicles/color-car-accidents-35bc1c8e7f375cd6
During daylight, black vehicles are 12 percent more likely than white cars to be involved in an accident. Not only are cars with low-visibility colors more likely to be involved in any crash, they are also more likely to be in a severe or life-threatening accident. Other low-visibility colors include blue, silver, gray, red and dark green. White cars are the safest cars to drive due to their high visibility during daylight and at dusk and dawn.


I had a black car, wasn't involved in any collision. In my white car earlier this year, I had to take to the ditch to avoid a fast-approaching tractor :evil: . Despite doing so from stationary and moving slowly, damage resulted :roll:

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661-Pete
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby 661-Pete » 4 Dec 2017, 11:37am

AlaninWales wrote:https://www.reference.com/vehicles/color-car-accidents-35bc1c8e7f375cd6
During daylight, black vehicles are 12 percent more likely than white cars to be involved in an accident. Not only are cars with low-visibility colors more likely to be involved in any crash, they are also more likely to be in a severe or life-threatening accident. Other low-visibility colors include blue, silver, gray, red and dark green. White cars are the safest cars to drive due to their high visibility during daylight and at dusk and dawn.

By that argument, White Van (and of course the proverbial Man, at the wheel) ought to be the safest vehicle on our roads.

Is it? :roll:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

AlaninWales
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby AlaninWales » 4 Dec 2017, 12:30pm

661-Pete wrote:Is it? :roll:

I'll leave the remainder of my post (which you omitted) to answer on my opinion to that. :roll:

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mjr
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby mjr » 4 Dec 2017, 12:33pm

AlaninWales wrote:https://www.reference.com/vehicles/color-car-accidents-35bc1c8e7f375cd6
During daylight, black vehicles are 12 percent more likely than white cars to be involved in an accident. Not only are cars with low-visibility colors more likely to be involved in any crash, they are also more likely to be in a severe or life-threatening accident. Other low-visibility colors include blue, silver, gray, red and dark green. White cars are the safest cars to drive due to their high visibility during daylight and at dusk and dawn.

Two of the sources listed have been withdrawn and the third is a news report. I seriously doubt that the withdrawn sources actually supported the "common sense" conclusion that it's because white has high visibility, which it doesn't (try it in fog or snow...)
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby [XAP]Bob » 4 Dec 2017, 12:37pm

661-Pete wrote:
AlaninWales wrote:https://www.reference.com/vehicles/color-car-accidents-35bc1c8e7f375cd6
During daylight, black vehicles are 12 percent more likely than white cars to be involved in an accident. Not only are cars with low-visibility colors more likely to be involved in any crash, they are also more likely to be in a severe or life-threatening accident. Other low-visibility colors include blue, silver, gray, red and dark green. White cars are the safest cars to drive due to their high visibility during daylight and at dusk and dawn.

By that argument, White Van (and of course the proverbial Man, at the wheel) ought to be the safest vehicle on our roads.

Is it? :roll:


In terms of not being hit by other people then quite possibly...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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661-Pete
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby 661-Pete » 4 Dec 2017, 4:00pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
661-Pete wrote:
By that argument, White Van (and of course the proverbial Man, at the wheel) ought to be the safest vehicle on our roads.

Is it? :roll:


In terms of not being hit by other people then quite possibly...

Unless you count the number of times they get thumped by an angry cyclist's fist after passing too close..... :twisted:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Highway Code and advice on cycle helmets

Postby [XAP]Bob » 4 Dec 2017, 4:56pm

661-Pete wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
661-Pete wrote:By that argument, White Van (and of course the proverbial Man, at the wheel) ought to be the safest vehicle on our roads.

Is it? :roll:


In terms of not being hit by other people then quite possibly...

Unless you count the number of times they get thumped by an angry cyclist's fist after passing too close..... :twisted:

That's unrelated to colour though - at least in theory.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.