Magic hats in France

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Bicycler
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby Bicycler » 4 Sep 2014, 10:44am

Audax67 wrote:Thanks to Busch & Müller, these decisions are now taken from us.

I found Ever Ready did a good job of taking the decision away from us years ago :lol:

Tonyf33
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby Tonyf33 » 4 Sep 2014, 2:46pm

Bicycler wrote:
Audax67 wrote:Note that there's no faffing about with "legal twilight" here: once the sun goes down it's night.

That's pretty much the rule for cyclists here. It's motors that have the odd rules: http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/ ... egulations
CJ wrote:'Lighting-up time' and the 'Hours of Darkness'

These commonplace phrases have meant many different things in the past and continue to cause confusion. Remember: for a cyclist the only thing that matters is the sun, the moment it dips below the horizon, our lights must go on, even though there may be plenty of light to see by for another half hour or so on a clear evening.

Sunset to sunrise: that's lighting-up time, when drivers must also switch on their sidelights at least. They can leave off the headlights for another 30 minutes, until - you guessed it - the 'Hours of Darkness', which nowadays endure from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise.

Well the the part I've highlighted isn't actually accurate, in built up areas you only need have your sidelights on, which given the amount of lighting that there is is more than adequate and doesn't lead to that lighting bleeding over everything else, part of the reason why some cyclists get struck because of the ridiculous lighting war that motors and indeed cyclists are having to resort to.. :x

Bicycler
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby Bicycler » 4 Sep 2014, 2:57pm

Tonyf33 wrote:
Bicycler wrote:
Audax67 wrote:Note that there's no faffing about with "legal twilight" here: once the sun goes down it's night.

That's pretty much the rule for cyclists here. It's motors that have the odd rules: http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/ ... egulations
CJ wrote:Sunset to sunrise: that's lighting-up time, when drivers must also switch on their sidelights at least. They can leave off the headlights for another 30 minutes, until - you guessed it - the 'Hours of Darkness', which nowadays endure from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise.

Well the the part I've highlighted isn't actually accurate, in built up areas you only need have your sidelights on, which given the amount of lighting that there is is more than adequate and doesn't lead to that lighting bleeding over everything else, part of the reason why some cyclists get struck because of the ridiculous lighting war that motors and indeed cyclists are having to resort to.. :x

Yes, there's no legal requirement for a motor vehicle to use headlights on a street lit road with a speed limit of 30mph or less. I think we can forgive an article on cycle lighting for not going into the exceptions applying to motor vehicle lighting.

Tonyf33
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby Tonyf33 » 4 Sep 2014, 3:16pm

But as a cycling organisation it is important to make the point that motovehicles headlights in built up areas (where most cyclists cycle at 'light on') should not be used for the safety of cyclists..rather than just meekly make a mistake regarding the regulations and say nothing as to why it's actually important for motor vehicles to use side lights only in lit built up areas in an article regarding lighting..do you not think?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby [XAP]Bob » 4 Sep 2014, 3:30pm

Tonyf33 wrote:But as a cycling organisation it is important to make the point that motovehicles headlights in built up areas (where most cyclists cycle at 'light on') should not be used for the safety of cyclists..rather than just meekly make a mistake regarding the regulations and say nothing as to why it's actually important for motor vehicles to use side lights only in lit built up areas in an article regarding lighting..do you not think?

Many cars don't have the choice any more (well, nearly, I could override the auto lights, but why would I?)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Bicycler
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby Bicycler » 4 Sep 2014, 3:46pm

Tonyf33 wrote:But as a cycling organisation it is important to make the point that motovehicles headlights in built up areas (where most cyclists cycle at 'light on') should not be used for the safety of cyclists..rather than just meekly make a mistake regarding the regulations and say nothing as to why it's actually important for motor vehicles to use side lights only in lit built up areas in an article regarding lighting..do you not think?

I don't think it's in a position to influence many people.

Unlike the highway code:
Rule 151 - You should also
use dipped headlights, or dim-dip if fitted, at night in built-up areas and in dull daytime weather, to ensure that you can be seen

(my emphasis)

I certainly understand the point you are making but it is far from universally agreed upon. Personally I would be happier with less powerful dipped headlights and/or better adjustment of the dip. Too many dipped headlights allow a lot of light way above the horizontal.

alant82
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby alant82 » 4 Sep 2014, 3:47pm

Tonyf33 wrote:in built up areas you only need have your sidelights on

Yet I was once pulled over by the police while driving with sidelights only on, and advised to use headlights. After demonstrating that my headlights were fully functional, and while still sitting stationary listening to the police officer with his safety lecture, I turned them back down to sidelights and his colleague who was checking my lights told me to put my headlights back on and leave them on :roll:
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Bicycler
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby Bicycler » 4 Sep 2014, 4:32pm

alant82 wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:in built up areas you only need have your sidelights on

Yet I was once pulled over by the police while driving with sidelights only on, and advised to use headlights. After demonstrating that my headlights were fully functional, and while still sitting stationary listening to the police officer with his safety lecture, I turned them back down to sidelights and his colleague who was checking my lights told me to put my headlights back on and leave them on :roll:

Was it a street with fully functioning street lights and subject to a speed limit of 30mph or less? If yes then it is not a legal requirement for you to use headlights. The police can, however, choose to advise you of the wording of the highway code if they wish to do so and the highway code does advise the use of dipped headlights. They also have wide ranging powers to direct traffic and I suspect that might mean that you were obliged to follow their instruction on this occasion.

AlaninWales
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby AlaninWales » 4 Sep 2014, 5:31pm

alant82 wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:in built up areas you only need have your sidelights on

Yet I was once pulled over by the police while driving with sidelights only on, and advised to use headlights. After demonstrating that my headlights were fully functional, and while still sitting stationary listening to the police officer with his safety lecture, I turned them back down to sidelights and his colleague who was checking my lights told me to put my headlights back on and leave them on :roll:

Had much the same conversation, stopped with blues and told hadlights were not working "I thought you were a motorbike" :roll: I didn't reply "Then get your eyes tested" but pointed out the non-requirement for headlights and how it dazzles oncoming and obscured less brightly lit VRUs... "Headlights after dark" was the repeated response, so I put them on until he drove away.

alant82
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby alant82 » 4 Sep 2014, 8:44pm

Bicycler wrote:Was it a street with fully functioning street lights and subject to a speed limit of 30mph or less? If yes then it is not a legal requirement for you to use headlights. The police can, however, choose to advise you of the wording of the highway code if they wish to do so and the highway code does advise the use of dipped headlights. They also have wide ranging powers to direct traffic and I suspect that might mean that you were obliged to follow their instruction on this occasion.

It was a very well lit 30mph street but in order to avoid being stopped any longer I followed the advice and switched to dipped headlights. It did seem a bit silly considering just how well lit the street is.
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Audax67
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby Audax67 » 4 Sep 2014, 9:23pm

In France the law requires dipped headlights in town after dark: however, a few weeks after the law was introduced the boss of Van Cleef & Arpels was knocked down and killed on a wet cobbled street in Paris. The driver pleaded that she had been dazzled by headlights & their reflections off the cobbles. All charges were dropped and the police were instructed not to enforce the law. I believe nothing has changed since.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

Jon Lucas
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby Jon Lucas » 10 Sep 2014, 8:35am

BigFoz wrote:Having just come back from 3 weeks in France, the use of "magic hats" was split approximately 60/40 in favour of "sans hat du magique"...


In French towns and cities helmets are worn by far fewer than tend to do so here. In Paris, for instance, I noted a rate of about 5% helmeted and 95% not, and even at rush hour the vast majority were helmetless, unlike in London. It's also gratifying to see how much cycling there is now in Paris.

In the countryside you will see more helmets being worn, but only because there are more tourists and club riders here.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Magic hats in France

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Sep 2014, 9:23am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:But as a cycling organisation it is important to make the point that motovehicles headlights in built up areas (where most cyclists cycle at 'light on') should not be used for the safety of cyclists..rather than just meekly make a mistake regarding the regulations and say nothing as to why it's actually important for motor vehicles to use side lights only in lit built up areas in an article regarding lighting..do you not think?

Many cars don't have the choice any more (well, nearly, I could override the auto lights, but why would I?)

I tried this a few night ago - was very odd driving through town with no apparent headlights (since the sidelights are completely washed out by the flood^Hstreet lights.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.