Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
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bikes4two
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby bikes4two » 7 Jul 2014, 11:23am

Reading this thread I was just thinking of poor Mark Cavendish on Sunday: he must have been doing 30 mph-ish when he took a tumble! From the slo-mo I didn't see if his helmet touched the deck?
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broadway
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby broadway » 7 Jul 2014, 11:43am

Audax67 wrote:Dogs bark, caravans pass. If they want to waffle on about helmets that's their look-out: I've decided I don't much care about what happens to other people's crania as long as I'm not going to skid on their contents.

FWIW I usually wear a helmet: apart from anything else it makes a handy framework for carrying my head torch, and with a rain cover on it provides a very pleasant microclimate on a cold, wet day.


If find a Aldi buff alike is excellent for my 20 minute commute on a cold wet day. I don't have a microclimate on other days :) .
Last edited by broadway on 7 Jul 2014, 12:49pm, edited 1 time in total.

JimL
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby JimL » 7 Jul 2014, 11:54am

Cunobelin wrote:Which CC?



I would also be interested to know.

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Phil Fouracre » 7 Jul 2014, 2:09pm

What is it with interfering people? This just goes on and on. I thought we lived in a 'free' country, why do some people want to erode what little freedom we have left. Don't smoke, don't drink, don't eat, don't go out in the rain/wind/snow/ice. Why is it so difficult for some people to just let individuals do whatever they want. The only proviso that I would make is that whatever they do should not impact on anyone else. Of all the above the one thing that really gets up my nose is seeing morbidly obese 'health' workers! Offering others dietary advice, Arrrgh........
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Tonyf33
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Tonyf33 » 7 Jul 2014, 9:55pm

Phil Fouracre wrote:What is it with interfering people? This just goes on and on. I thought we lived in a 'free' country, why do some people want to erode what little freedom we have left. Don't smoke, don't drink, don't eat, don't go out in the rain/wind/snow/ice. Why is it so difficult for some people to just let individuals do whatever they want. The only proviso that I would make is that whatever they do should not impact on anyone else. Of all the above the one thing that really gets up my nose is seeing morbidly obese 'health' workers! Offering others dietary advice, Arrrgh........

that's the thing though, all these manic hi-vis/helmet wearers ARE actually having an impact on me and my safety/well being..

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bikes4two
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby bikes4two » 8 Jul 2014, 4:46pm

The question as to which CC made the statement has yet to be answered. Is it possible the OP is winding us up?
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby Phil Fouracre » 8 Jul 2014, 6:36pm

Probably, just another excuse to bang on about helmets.
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drossall
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby drossall » 8 Jul 2014, 11:30pm

bikes4two wrote:Reading this thread I was just thinking of poor Mark Cavendish on Sunday: he must have been doing 30 mph-ish when he took a tumble! From the slo-mo I didn't see if his helmet touched the deck?


Hard to say, but he did tuck and try to roll. It may be that he would believe that his helmet had helped. It may be that, because he landed on his shoulder, he managed to tuck his head, although enlarged as it was by the helmet, out of the way. Or it may be that the helmet caught on the ground when a bare, normal-sized head would have been well out of the way.

All this involves speculation, but it illustrates why there is room for debate about the benefits. I remember watching a sprint crash some years ago where it seemed much clearer to me that the helmet was in danger of involving a rider's head (and therefore neck) in an accident that it would otherwise, by tucking in, have escaped entirely.

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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby rmurphy195 » 15 Sep 2014, 11:54am

My goodness this section doescontain some polarised views!

As I've stated elsewhere I started wearing a helmet partly as an example to my then young children, and partl because I have only one head, and I figured I needed it for work!

But have continued to do so and it has saved me from a couple of nasty cracks on the head (From overhanging branches on country lanes, or simply sitting up at a red traffic ligh and banging my head on the door mirror of a lorry that pulled up beside me!) - it's become more of a habit, really, than anything else, along it the SPD shoes even though my bikes have non-SPD pedals or sides to the pedals.

But on a steep uphill on a hot day it sometimes does get removed - or at least my old one did, my current one has lots of ventilation.

Personal choice - OK, and I wouldn't like to see people being fined if they've left thier helmet behind. Or if some scrote has nicked it while you are out.

But give some though to these aspects
[list=]
Do you need your brain for anything?
Would a nasty crack on your head, potentially, leave you without the means to earn a living?
If you set a no-helmet example to one of your children/grandchildren, who subsequently had a nasty injury due to following your example, how would you feel?
Do you believe that you don't need a hat 'cos you'll never fall off your bike?
[/list]

Too fussy - perhaps, considering I'm the one that always uses the pelican crossing and follows its lights, especially when there are children around ... Or maybe that's because having teachers in the family I do hear of the occasional tragedy that may have been averted simply by an adult setting an example.
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beardy
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby beardy » 15 Sep 2014, 12:03pm

If you set a no-helmet example to one of your children/grandchildren, who subsequently had a nasty injury due to following your example, how would you feel?


How on earth is my not wearing a helmet going to cause somebody to have a nasty accident?

Now if I had no clothes on, that might cause them to have a crash.

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bovlomov
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby bovlomov » 15 Sep 2014, 12:17pm

rmurphy195 wrote:But give some though to these aspects
    Do you need your brain for anything?
    Would a nasty crack on your head, potentially, leave you without the means to earn a living?
    If you set a no-helmet example to one of your children/grandchildren, who subsequently had a nasty injury due to following your example, how would you feel?
    Do you believe that you don't need a hat 'cos you'll never fall off your bike?

I suggest you spend some time browsing this part of the forum.
You'll see that most of the contributors use their brains very much - not least as an aid to untangling the non sequiturs, lies, half-truths and misdirections of many of the pro-helmet campaigners.

There are libertarian arguments against compulsion, but most of the arguments against compulsion rest on the belief that helmets give only minimal protection, and that protection is at the cost of additional risks elsewhere. These beliefs are often supported by data - which you are free to dispute, point by point.

But, to answer your questions:
-Yes
-Yes
-See above. The chances of them being harmed by following my example are less than the chances of them being harmed by not following it. Moreover, if I scare them so much that they don't cycle at all (the majority opinion) then they are being harmed even more.
-No

Now you do some reading and give that some thought.

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mjr
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby mjr » 15 Sep 2014, 12:45pm

rmurphy195 wrote:But have continued to do so and it has saved me from a couple of nasty cracks on the head (From overhanging branches on country lanes, or simply sitting up at a red traffic ligh and banging my head on the door mirror of a lorry that pulled up beside me!) - it's become more of a habit, really, than anything else, along it the SPD shoes even though my bikes have non-SPD pedals or sides to the pedals.

I stopped wearing a helmet mainly due to neck pain. I researched the topic before stopping and was surprised just how unproven current EN1078 helmets are and how the helmets have generally gotten weaker since I started wearing them, when most were Snell-certified. I doubt that most helmets are a net benefit in a collision and although I've crashed a few times, the only time I hit my head on the road was as a pedestrian... and I still walk without a hard hat on, so it wouldn't really be a consistent approach to risk to insist on a hard hat when cycling.

I did have a problem with overhanging branches on the first few rides, but a cotton cycling cap has dealt with the worst of that. Anything more than a small twig is usually either big enough to see or has been mashed by motor vehicles long before it's a problem for me.

Banging your head on the door mirror of a lorry that pulled up beside? That sounds like bad cycling (being too far left in the lane) and/or bad driving by the lorry driver pulling up alongside.
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby pjclinch » 15 Sep 2014, 1:02pm

rmurphy195 wrote:
But give some though to these aspects

* Do you need your brain for anything?
* Would a nasty crack on your head, potentially, leave you without the means to earn a living?
* If you set a no-helmet example to one of your children/grandchildren, who subsequently had a nasty injury due to following your example, how would you feel?
* Do you believe that you don't need a hat 'cos you'll never fall off your bike?


That'll be yes, yes, that given the capabilities of a cycle helmet my example and their accident didn't really have much to do with one another, and no (in fact it's safe in the knowledge that I do fall off my bike from time to time).

Your turn... Given that the commonest cause of traumatic brain injury is from trips and falls (stairs and wet bathroom floors are particular problem areas, icy pavements a biggie too), and that cycling is not clearly more productive of serious head injury than falls from feet, please answer the following:

* Do you need your brain for anything?
* Would a nasty crack on your head, potentially, leave you without the means to earn a living?
* If you set a no-helmet example to one of your children/grandchildren, who subsequently had a nasty injury due to following your example, how would you feel?
* Do you believe that you don't need a hat 'cos you'll never fall off your feet?

So, how do those answers come out, and do you wear a helmet for e.g. getting in and out of the bath and coming down stairs, or just walking around? If you don't, why not? I suspect for very similar reasons I typically don't on my bike when getting from A to B on the roads (coaching mountain biking I'll be wearing it, but that's a different game with different rules and different risks).

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby DaveGos » 15 Sep 2014, 3:58pm

Jughead wrote:Cycling into Glasgow on a lovely, sunny day. Me and the bike. Wonderful. 3 guys from the local CC club caught up like extras from Robocop. You know the sort of thing: helmets, glasses, gloves. cameras, gps computers, protective clothing and stuff. Adverts on bikes. Talked to one of them briefly who was disappointed I wasn't wearing a helmet. Told me 'they' were in talks with the police and that the police would soon be introducing a £30 fine for cyclists not wearing a helmet. Why do these people think they can speak for other cyclists because they are in a CC? I'm 50 this year and have never wore a helmet. What is it with this country that so called experts need to tell you how to behave. Precisely the reason why I don't belong to a CC.


They do seem a bit out of order , and I am doubtful of the benefits of helmets , though wear one 95 percent of the time, however there are many safety measures introduced or made compulsory in the last 50 years with significant benefits - namely safety belts in cars

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Why Are You Not Wearling a Helmet?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 15 Sep 2014, 4:12pm

Can you see a (sustained) step change in road deaths in the UK from the introduction of compulsory seatbelts?

I can't, partly because people now drive faster, knowing they are protected, and thus endanger *others* more than they used to.

Even "clearly beneficial" intervention can have unintended consequences
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