Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
beardy
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby beardy » 19 Aug 2014, 6:38pm

For some reason the arguments all read like Americans who are afraid the government are out to take their guns from them, which is not a good thing.


Would that be those guns that kill many people a day in the USA?

How much harm has anybody ever done to somebody else by not wearing a helmet on a bike?

I imagine people defending civil liberties all sound alike, whether the attack on their liberties has a justification or not.

Over 99% of those American gun owners are correct but removing their liberties (along with the "bad" owners) could save a lot of innocent lives.
The non-helmet wearers are only allegedly risking their own heads not endangering or causing endangerment of others.

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mjr
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby mjr » 19 Aug 2014, 6:55pm

fast but dim wrote:I suspect that the majority of people go from no helmet > helmet, and not the other way.

Well, only a minority wear helmets, so unless it's an open-and-shut case causing one-way traffic, that's basic mathematics, isn't it?
You can produce whatever statistics you want: there's no substitute for personal experience. I can't see any real negative to helmet wearing, and have experienced a positive.

Facts are stubborn, statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain.

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Mark Twain.

If you do choose to continue, I hope you don't suffer the negatives I did. vbw
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Cunobelin
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby Cunobelin » 19 Aug 2014, 7:00pm

alant82 wrote:
Bicycler wrote:I bet you also experience similarly uninformed views on how your trike is invisible, dangerous and in need of a flag (if it doesn't have one). Have you suggested that she wear a helmet around the house? After all, she has much further to fall.

When I suggested that perhaps we should all wear helmets around the house and while out walking along the pavement I was told that I was being silly :roll:

And don't get me started on the trike safety lectures!


Is it pedantic to point out that the OP would not have fallen off at all if he was on a recumbent trike..........therefore proving that recumbent trikes should be ridden at all times?

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pjclinch
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby pjclinch » 19 Aug 2014, 7:20pm

fast but dim wrote:pjclinch: you state your daughter's sensei doesn't recommend gummies: not many judoka's do ( as stated ) I don't know why.


At a rough guess, because there's no particular need for them?

As for my ppe choices, I know theyr'e inconsistent. I should wear a helmet when scrambling, but don't, mainly because I come from an era where no-one really wore them, hate wearing them and don't want to buy something I won't really use. I am really careful when winter mountaineering, and have been going out for the last 20 plus years with no incident.... sound familiar :wink:


Why should you wear one for scrambling? The basic problem with rockfall is when you have someone above you with a rope between. If you're scrambling you only need to ensure you're not underneath someone on choss and it's a non-issue. Winter climbing is an entirely different kettle of fish which is why pretty much everyone has been helmeted to do it since at least the 80s when I started doing it. It's not whether you are careful, it's whether the person above you trying to get a purchase on a wall of ice will knock any down when repeatedly kicking and bashing at it with their tools. In fact the only way to be careful in such a position is make sure you're dressed in such a way that blocks of ice landing on your head don't knock you out/off: in other words, you wear a helmet.

fast but dim wrote:For some reason the arguments all read like Americans who are afraid the government are out to take their guns from them, which is not a good thing.


That would quite possibly be rationalisation and/or confirmation bias...

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mnichols
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby mnichols » 19 Aug 2014, 7:51pm

According to Michael Hutchinson in his book "Faster" a helmet is slower than a cotton cap or a shaved head. So given that they are looking for every bit of speed and marginal gains - why do the pros wear them and the governing bodies insist on them?

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Cunobelin
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby Cunobelin » 19 Aug 2014, 8:05pm

mnichols wrote:According to Michael Hutchinson in his book "Faster" a helmet is slower than a cotton cap or a shaved head. So given that they are looking for every bit of speed and marginal gains - why do the pros wear them and the governing bodies insist on them?


Probably for the same reasons that the RAC / ACU require you to wear one when driving a car in one of their events (again without any performance benefit)?

Is it because of the increased speeds, increased risks due to a close riding environment, and other factors that you and I will never ever meet.

If you are going to try and use this is a to support a reason for the average cyclist to wear a helmet, you will need to explain why the same measures by the RAC/ AcU are not an argument for the average driver to wear one.

I suspect that will not happen

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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby mnichols » 19 Aug 2014, 8:10pm

Why do Sportives and cycle tour companies require people to wear helmets?

beardy
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby beardy » 19 Aug 2014, 8:12pm

I have given the first question a superficial looking into.

Clearly helmets DO improve your aerodynamic advantage.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/b ... ets-34859/

I then wondered who Mr Hutchinson was but it appears he is in a position that he knows what he is talking about. So I guess he means the sort of helmets that people wear doing the TdF.

So all those riders are wearing the sort of helmet that is sold to everyday riders on the street and have a disadvantage, rather than wearing helmets worn by time trial riders which give an advantage.

It may be the authorities dont want anybody who wears a helmet for safety reasons to be disadvantaged, so all must wear them to avoid sacrificing safety or could it be sponsorship?

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pjclinch
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby pjclinch » 19 Aug 2014, 8:17pm

According to a fairly scholarly and well referenced piece on Sheldon, an aero helmet should give ~2% lower drag than a bald head.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

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mjr
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby mjr » 19 Aug 2014, 8:27pm

mnichols wrote:Why do Sportives and cycle tour companies require people to wear helmets?

Not all do. Presumably the ones that do have a higher risk of low speed falls, which I think would be a good reason to avoid them!
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mnichols
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby mnichols » 19 Aug 2014, 8:37pm

In his book he is referring to normal vented helmets, which he describes as an "aerodynamic disaster"

British Cycling also state that "a helmet is the most important piece of cycling gear that you own", recommend that you wear one when riding, and insist that you wear one when you race (rule 8.6.1) - why if it slows you down and it has no benefit?

beardy
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby beardy » 19 Aug 2014, 8:43pm

British Cycling also state that "a helmet is the most important piece of cycling gear that you own", recommend that you wear one when riding, and insist that you wear one when you race (rule 8.6.1) - why if it slows you down and it has no benefit?


Which is why I am a CTC member on a CTC forum. :D :D

kwackers
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby kwackers » 19 Aug 2014, 8:45pm

mnichols wrote:In his book he is referring to normal vented helmets, which he describes as an "aerodynamic disaster"

British Cycling also state that "a helmet is the most important piece of cycling gear that you own", recommend that you wear one when riding, and insist that you wear one when you race (rule 8.6.1) - why if it slows you down and it has no benefit?

That's a good question. Why not ask them? Ask them what they've based that opinion on too.

My guess is like pretty much every other pro-helmet person/group they've based it on anecdotes and "common sense".
(They certainly haven't based it on research or crash data).

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honesty
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby honesty » 19 Aug 2014, 8:48pm

mnichols wrote:Why do Sportives and cycle tour companies require people to wear helmets?

Insurance. Pure and simple. See previous answer about insurance.

drossall
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Re: Near miss, saved by helmet.Lesson learned

Postby drossall » 19 Aug 2014, 8:56pm

mnichols wrote:British Cycling also state that "a helmet is the most important piece of cycling gear that you own"...


This is what their policy advisor says.