Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

This sub-forum all discussions about this "lively" subject. All topics that are substantially about helmets will be moved here, if not placed here correctly in the first place.
TonyR
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby TonyR » 15 Oct 2014, 9:51pm

maxcherry wrote:Doesn't it depend on where and how the object is attached to the helmet?


No it depends on how and where the helmet impacts. Now if you can just choose to only have the accidents in which the camera/light is not punched through the helmet you should be fine. But if you can't.........

beardy
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby beardy » 15 Oct 2014, 9:52pm

I would have thought it depended more on what the gadget was made of.
To be forced into somebody's skull it would have to be a substantial piece of metal, most plasticky gadgets would be cushioning the effect of any blow (except for the batteries) that had that much force.

TonyR
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby TonyR » 15 Oct 2014, 10:11pm

Tonyf33 wrote:Surely unless they replicate the crash exactly they can never be 100% certain that the death was caused by the helmet+camera, it's just supposition based upon a single finding.
Simulate the crash with the exact same paremeters a thousand times then come back and say this what we found.


Not true if you have the original helmet to compare the results with. You can do an impact with and without the camera at the same impact site as the real helmet and compare the results with the actual helmet. Never 100% certain but you should be able to get pretty close.

TonyR
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby TonyR » 15 Oct 2014, 10:13pm

beardy wrote:I would have thought it depended more on what the gadget was made of.
To be forced into somebody's skull it would have to be a substantial piece of metal, most plasticky gadgets would be cushioning the effect of any blow (except for the batteries) that had that much force.


So you wouldn't mind someone smashing you over the head with one? They look pretty robust to me and some of the lights people have mounted are metal cylinders.

maxcherry
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby maxcherry » 15 Oct 2014, 10:15pm

TonyR wrote:
maxcherry wrote:Doesn't it depend on where and how the object is attached to the helmet?


No it depends on how and where the helmet impacts. Now if you can just choose to only have the accidents in which the camera/light is not punched through the helmet you should be fine. But if you can't.........



My cam is mounted on top of my lid. If I crash face down or on the side, my cam does not come into
contact with the ground.

Although a major problem if I go head first into a object.
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

beardy
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby beardy » 15 Oct 2014, 10:20pm

TonyR wrote:
beardy wrote:I would have thought it depended more on what the gadget was made of.
To be forced into somebody's skull it would have to be a substantial piece of metal, most plasticky gadgets would be cushioning the effect of any blow (except for the batteries) that had that much force.


So you wouldn't mind someone smashing you over the head with one? They look pretty robust to me and some of the lights people have mounted are metal cylinders.


I wouldnt like any body to smash me over the head with a cycle helmet either but that isnt why I dont wear one.

Nor would I like somebody smashing me over the head with a paving slab or a lamp post or a rock and if the choice was a rock or a rock with a headtorch on it, I would choose the rock with the headtorch.

maxcherry
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby maxcherry » 15 Oct 2014, 10:38pm

Are Ski and cycle helmets a different construction?
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!

beardy
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby beardy » 15 Oct 2014, 11:45pm

Bicycler wrote:I've long thought this about cycle helmet cameras. It seems obvious to me that a device attached to the outside of the helmet will focus the impact whereas the helmet is meant to spread the impact force over a much wider area. That seems obvious to me without even getting into the issue of the normal effectiveness of helmets. If you believe helmets provide a useful improvement in your own safety and choose to wear one for this reason it seems rather odd to strap hard objects to the outside of it


You are looking at this the wrong way. The only thing that saved Schumacher's life was his helmet

His doctor Professor Jean-Francois Payen asserted "We think his helmet did help, without a helmet he wouldn't be here now”

It appears that helmet cameras are so dangerous that not even a life-saving helmet was able to prevent serious injury in a low speed fall.
The only reasonable answer to this is to make it compulsory for ALL headcams and headtorches to be mounted on helmets, in order to save lives. If it saves just one life it is worth it and I can not see how there can even be an argument against it. In fact anybody who wears a headtorch or camera without a helmet is highly irresponsible and selfish. Endov, Simples.

Tonyf33
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby Tonyf33 » 16 Oct 2014, 12:14am

beardy wrote:
Bicycler wrote:I've long thought this about cycle helmet cameras. It seems obvious to me that a device attached to the outside of the helmet will focus the impact whereas the helmet is meant to spread the impact force over a much wider area. That seems obvious to me without even getting into the issue of the normal effectiveness of helmets. If you believe helmets provide a useful improvement in your own safety and choose to wear one for this reason it seems rather odd to strap hard objects to the outside of it


You are looking at this the wrong way. The only thing that saved Schumacher's life was his helmet

His doctor Professor Jean-Francois Payen asserted "We think his helmet did help, without a helmet he wouldn't be here now”

It appears that helmet cameras are so dangerous that not even a life-saving helmet was able to prevent serious injury in a low speed fall.
The only reasonable answer to this is to make it compulsory for ALL headcams and headtorches to be mounted on helmets, in order to save lives. If it saves just one life it is worth it and I can not see how there can even be an argument against it. In fact anybody who wears a headtorch or camera without a helmet is highly irresponsible and selfish. Endov, Simples.


What do you mean saved his life? The guy is medically dead, he won't ever recover from the crash/induced coma, not in the sense of anything other than a vegetative state and that's being pretty much accepted by many experts.
Helmet with or without headcam failed to save skier from fatal head injury doing less than 20mph is the story here

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Oct 2014, 8:18am

He's not dead yet.

As his son said - he's got a lifetime in which to recover.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Tonyf33
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby Tonyf33 » 16 Oct 2014, 3:38pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:He's not dead yet.

As his son said - he's got a lifetime in which to recover.

Okay, whatever, he is medically dead and whatever his son/family/friends might say & choose to believe, they already know in their heart of hearts he'll never ever recover...THAT IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT.
I respect that they want to keep him 'alive', that's their perogative but let's not be fooled into thinking the helmet 'saved' him/his life, because it just didn't..deliberate use of past tense because the guy is dead already
#keepbelieving :roll:

beardy
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby beardy » 16 Oct 2014, 4:03pm

What do you mean saved his life?


I was just quoting his doctor, a doctor who is so fancy that he is a professor. As I havent either seen or been within a hundred miles of Mr Schumacher and dont have much expertise in the matter, I will for once suspend my cynicism and accept that a doctor can tell the difference between the living and dead.
Legally, of course, only a doctor can do that in the UK.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Oct 2014, 4:31pm

On the basis that the current statements are along the lines that he is minimally concious I would respectfully suggest that you're declaration of gis death is premature.

Now Bianchi's crash looks to have been pretty bad. my first thought when II heard thatthat it was a DAI was that his career was over - specialists have since suggested the same.

Noone has said that either of them are dead yet, so let's not suggest that they are...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

irc
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby irc » 16 Oct 2014, 4:43pm

beardy wrote:
What do you mean saved his life?


I was just quoting his doctor, a doctor who is so fancy that he is a professor. As I havent either seen or been within a hundred miles of Mr Schumacher and dont have much expertise in the matter, I will for once suspend my cynicism and accept that a doctor can tell the difference between the living and dead.
Legally, of course, only a doctor can do that in the UK.


And some nurses and paramedics.

PRINCIPLES FOR PRACTICE

All doctors and appropriately trained registered n
urses and ambulance clinicians can
verify life extinct.




http://www.dhsspsni.gov.uk/hssmd-8-2008-attachment.pdf

kwackers
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby kwackers » 16 Oct 2014, 5:28pm

beardy wrote:
What do you mean saved his life?


I was just quoting his doctor, a doctor who is so fancy that he is a professor. As I havent either seen or been within a hundred miles of Mr Schumacher and dont have much expertise in the matter, I will for once suspend my cynicism and accept that a doctor can tell the difference between the living and dead.
Legally, of course, only a doctor can do that in the UK.

From my understanding it seems the only sure way is to wait until they start to smell and that just requires a nose. Anything else is merely an educated guess.