Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

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TonyR
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby TonyR » 16 Oct 2014, 5:31pm

beardy wrote:
What do you mean saved his life?


I was just quoting his doctor, a doctor who is so fancy that he is a professor.


A doctor who is nevertheless making the same unfounded speculation as doctors often do in these situations.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby [XAP]Bob » 17 Oct 2014, 7:35am

TonyR wrote:
beardy wrote:
What do you mean saved his life?


I was just quoting his doctor, a doctor who is so fancy that he is a professor.


A doctor who is nevertheless making the same unfounded speculation as doctors often do in these situations.


I suspect he's rather good at telling whether people are alive or not.

The cause of aliveness is often hard to determine.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

TonyR
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby TonyR » 17 Oct 2014, 8:38am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
TonyR wrote:
beardy wrote:[quote]What do you mean saved his life?


I was just quoting his doctor, a doctor who is so fancy that he is a professor.


A doctor who is nevertheless making the same unfounded speculation as doctors often do in these situations.


I suspect he's rather good at telling whether people are alive or not.

The cause of aliveness is often hard to determine.[/quote]

They use the Melon Test for that :wink:

Penfolds11
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby Penfolds11 » 20 Oct 2014, 9:55am

[XAP]Bob wrote:As his son said - he's got a lifetime in which to recover.


That's one smart son.

How long is a piece of string?!

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby [XAP]Bob » 20 Oct 2014, 11:18am

Penfolds11 wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:As his son said - he's got a lifetime in which to recover.


That's one smart son.

How long is a piece of string?!

More importantly he is financially able to deal with taking decades to recover if needed.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby Cunobelin » 20 Oct 2014, 8:23pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:More importantly he is financially able to deal with taking decades to recover if needed.


That is the sad thing.

Remember the successful film star Christopher Reeve's tragic accident, and the fact that despite this success he was unable to afford medical care , allegedly the care he did receive was (anonymously) funded by Robin Williams


Lets stretch our imagination and imagine someone on the breadline with a similar injury

Being unable to be treated for such an injury because you cannot afford it is unacceptable

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby [XAP]Bob » 20 Oct 2014, 10:43pm

Cunobelin wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:More importantly he is financially able to deal with taking decades to recover if needed.


That is the sad thing.

Remember the successful film star Christopher Reeve's tragic accident, and the fact that despite this success he was unable to afford medical care , allegedly the care he did receive was (anonymously) funded by Robin Williams


Lets stretch our imagination and imagine someone on the breadline with a similar injury

Being unable to be treated for such an injury because you cannot afford it is unacceptable

And is where the NHS is brilliant. No idea how long term the support would be from the NHS though.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Tonyf33
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby Tonyf33 » 21 Oct 2014, 1:02am

I'd be fuming if millions of pounds of tax payers money were being wastefully/needlessly spent on keeping a person in a coma for months/years on end whom was clearly brain dead/PVS (medically defined) in the vain hope that they may recover. The NHS isn't some private Frankenstein service where people can/should be stored/kept 'alive' because families aren't able to accept that their loved one has died or is so brain dead as to be in a vegetative state..i.e. a non functioning human being.

A normal family would recognise that and either care for them as they are if they ever regained consciousness or allow them to die naturally & peacefully having taken unbias medical advice unlike the total nonsense being spouted by the 'professor' because that's what he is being paid to say. And as I said, if they have the money, fine, they aren't breaking any laws by keeping him 'alive'. Ethically I think it's wrong and is disrespectful to the man.

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RickH
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby RickH » 21 Oct 2014, 1:29am

I think saying he is dead (or as good as) is jumping the gun a bit. Reports in the press from June suggested that Schumacher was no longer in a coma and was having periods when he is concious.

Daily Telegraph wrote:Experts have noted that he was said by Ms Kehm {his manager} to be having moments of eye opening and consciousness in April, which by definition meant he had already emerged from his coma. (link)

Rick.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby [XAP]Bob » 21 Oct 2014, 7:02am

Tonyf33 wrote:I'd be fuming if millions of pounds of tax payers money were being wastefully/needlessly spent on keeping a person in a coma for months/years on end whom was clearly brain dead/PVS (medically defined) in the vain hope that they may recover. The NHS isn't some private Frankenstein service where people can/should be stored/kept 'alive' because families aren't able to accept that their loved one has died or is so brain dead as to be in a vegetative state..i.e. a non functioning human being.

A normal family would recognise that and either care for them as they are if they ever regained consciousness or allow them to die naturally & peacefully having taken unbias medical advice unlike the total nonsense being spouted by the 'professor' because that's what he is being paid to say. And as I said, if they have the money, fine, they aren't breaking any laws by keeping him 'alive'. Ethically I think it's wrong and is disrespectful to the man.

People wake up after coma - Take this example from the poland - 19 years!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6C9x1-7QMc
This isn't an isolated case - it's rare, but there is a similar case in the US - and I've only scratched the surface of google...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

kwackers
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby kwackers » 21 Oct 2014, 9:01am

[XAP]Bob wrote:People wake up after coma - Take this example from the poland - 19 years!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6C9x1-7QMc
This isn't an isolated case - it's rare, but there is a similar case in the US - and I've only scratched the surface of google...

One of the problems is that it's becoming easier to keep people artificially alive whilst at the same time becoming much more difficult to actually say they're dead.
Even where the brain shows no activity there's no guarantee that deep inside some tiny bit isn't still functioning, nor can you guarantee that whatever the damage is several years down the line against all odds it starts to function again...

This sort of conundrum is going to get a lot worse. It was a lot easier in the old days... ;)

TonyR
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby TonyR » 21 Oct 2014, 9:17am

Tonyf33 wrote:I'd be fuming if millions of pounds of tax payers money were being wastefully/needlessly spent on keeping a person in a coma for months/years on end whom was clearly brain dead/PVS (medically defined) in the vain hope that they may recover. The NHS isn't some private Frankenstein service where people can/should be stored/kept 'alive' because families aren't able to accept that their loved one has died or is so brain dead as to be in a vegetative state..i.e. a non functioning human being.


I suggest you read the Diving Bell and the Butterfly, a very moving book written by someone with locked in syndrome after a stroke where they could only blink one eyelid. And then consider that recent research has indicated that many patients in vegatative state may be conscious but totally locked in. Brain scans for example have shown that when asked to think about playing tennis the brain lights up in exactly the same way as a normal person asked the same question indicating conscious thought going on. You might want to now re-evaluate what you wrote above.

kwackers
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby kwackers » 21 Oct 2014, 9:24am

TonyR wrote:And then consider that recent research has indicated that many patients in vegatative state may be conscious but totally locked in. Brain scans for example have shown that when asked to think about playing tennis the brain lights up in exactly the same way as a normal person asked the same question indicating conscious thought going on. You might want to now re-evaluate what you wrote above.

I guess it's a personal thing but in that state I most definitely want to be switched off. I can't think of anything worse, I can't even imagine how one would stay sane. It must be the most horrific thing ever.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby [XAP]Bob » 21 Oct 2014, 9:54am

We don't know how much life support is being used - he might just be being fed IV, yet breathing on his own.

So when do you stop feeding someone?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Tonyf33
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Location: Letchworth N.Herts

Re: Schumacher's helmet cam caused his injury

Postby Tonyf33 » 22 Oct 2014, 1:55pm

RickH wrote:I think saying he is dead (or as good as) is jumping the gun a bit. Reports in the press from June suggested that Schumacher was no longer in a coma and was having periods when he is concious.

Daily Telegraph wrote:Experts have noted that he was said by Ms Kehm {his manager} to be having moments of eye opening and consciousness in April, which by definition meant he had already emerged from his coma. (link)

Rick.

Except that reports/statements from the family conflict each other, if you waken/show signs of consciousness which was as far back as April then you are no longer in a coma. They then reported the same thing in August but another statement said there were no facial/signs of response. So either he is still in a coma, in which case no consciousness and after that period of time being in a coma, medically it's already certain he'll be PVS or will never waken. Or they are just repeating (In August) something that has already happened in both december (He's improving etc) AND April i.e. that he has some periods of consciousness/opening his eyes which means he is no longer in a coma.

in the 6 months since April he's shown no signs of actually being awake other to open his eyes briefly and unable to respond/communicate in any way shape or form, unable to breathe on his own, being fed by a tube, so he is already PVS with negligible functioning if anything. No brain scans have being revealed or mentioned, because it'll show the truth.

So either awaken him properly, removing the drugs that form part of the induced coma (which they've said that's what they were doing for over 2 months) and see if his body/brin can fucntion at all (which it won't) or do the decent respectable thing for him & pronounce he'll never recover.

The fact his wife/estate has put up his private jet and his F1 car up for sale speaks volumes. Keeping him 'alive' is massively disresepctful to him as a human being.

Anyway, a helmet never saved his life and that's the end of it...