Cycle helmet broken in fall

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TonyR
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby TonyR » 26 Nov 2014, 3:04pm

kwackers wrote:They do but they're a lot better than cycle helmets. At least they're smooth.....


...and they not full of ventilation holes and aerodynamic protrusions at the back.

oneten
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby oneten » 26 Nov 2014, 4:04pm

Bob - I'm sure that as a helmet wearer, I would also 'die for your right not to wear one - provided I haven't been killed first because of wearing one :!: :D
I totally agree with your point about not imposing our will on others because of their choices about as whether to wear a helmet. There are some typical examples of people asserting their will on the 'Mythbusters' section of the HSE website ( see for example, case 27- letter to cyclist threatening to remove his chained up bike on health and safety grounds.' http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/myth-busting ... p-post.htm and New regulations would require trapeze artists to wear hard hat at http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/june.htm
A lot of counter-productive urban myths abound similar to these and I remember the rumours circulated about MDF (medium density fibreboard) being a really dangerous carcinogenic material which is banned in the USA. Notwithstanding the fact that it hadn't actually been banned across the pond, the fact was that MDF dust was no more carcinogenic than the dust produced when machining most hardwoods.By branding MDF as so dangerous, this may have led to complacency about safety precautions when working with other woods, resulting in an unintended greater risk by inadvertently hiding the bigger picture.

Maybe the focus on the finer details of helmets and hi - viz clothing has caused some cyclists to take their eye of the ball as far as the greater principle of road safety is concerned. A bit like the motorist feeling invincible within the confines of the warm,cosy car with all the gadgets feeling shielded from the hazardous conditions outside.

thirdcrank
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Nov 2014, 4:38pm

oneten wrote: ... Maybe the focus on the finer details of helmets and hi - viz clothing has caused some cyclists to take their eye of the ball as far as the greater principle of road safety is concerned. A bit like the motorist feeling invincible within the confines of the warm,cosy car with all the gadgets feeling shielded from the hazardous conditions outside.


But the driver of a modern car is shielded from many of the hazards outside their vehicle and this has been achieved at the expense of making vulnerable road users even more vulnerable. I'd suggest that many riders who question the benefits of helmets and hi-viz togs are conscious of this. IMO, a lot of the pressure for cyclists to wear these togs is from people who want to shift the responsibility from those cocooned drivers to the rest of us.

Bicycler
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby Bicycler » 26 Nov 2014, 5:16pm

oneten wrote:Maybe the focus on the finer details of helmets and hi - viz clothing has caused some cyclists to take their eye of the ball as far as the greater principle of road safety is concerned. A bit like the motorist feeling invincible within the confines of the warm,cosy car with all the gadgets feeling shielded from the hazardous conditions outside.

I think it's a red herring. Cycling is currently statistically safer than many other activities which we would never dream of wearing protective equipment in order to do. Okay, so there should not be complacency, we can still make it safer. If we want to do this we need to look at countries where cycling is safer than in the UK, countries which inevitably have lower rates of helmet and hi-vis wearing than the UK. When we do we see the great lie being perpetrated that cycle safety is about helmets, hi-vis, obeying red lights, not pavement cycling or wearing headphones and all the other stuff which inevitably gets brought up. It is about limiting the danger posed by drivers of motor vehicles. The inconvenient truth is that people killed whilst cycling have rarely just fallen from their bikes. The vast majority have been hit by motors.

I see massive parallels with the road lobby's campaigns about jaywalking http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26073797. Is there anything more cynical than blaming the victim for being killed?

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pjclinch
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby pjclinch » 26 Nov 2014, 6:30pm

oneten wrote:I can see where people are coming from especially when opposing making helmets compulsory.Despite all that though, I am still glad I was wearing my (yes - it just so happens it was a Bell :? !) helmet, whether it saved me from superficial or any other injury to my bone dome, or whether the extra protusion of the helmet thickness was what caused the impact or not, I'll never know, but I'm glad it was just a chunk of polystyrene that came adrift rathervthan anything else. I am going to keep on wearing a helmet ( my nice new Spezialized one) once my rib- cage is less tender ( please no-one suggest the helmet caused/could have saved me from that :D ).


Fair enough you were happy you were wearing it. I strongly suspect that had you been wearing downhill MTB body armour that protected your ribs you'd have been glad of that... though I suspect that's not enough to make you go out and get some. In other words, it's very easy to rationalise our choices.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...

oneten
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby oneten » 26 Nov 2014, 6:40pm

But the driver of a modern car is shielded from many of the hazards outside their vehicle and this has been achieved at the expense of making vulnerable road users even more vulnerable. I'd suggest that many riders who question the benefits of helmets and hi-viz togs are conscious of this. IMO, a lot of the pressure for cyclists to wear these togs is from people who want to shift the responsibility from those cocooned drivers to the rest of us.


So the environment within the vehicle becomes like a simulator and the road conditions ahead like that which appears on the screen of a virtual driving game. I'm probably stretching the analogy a bit too far but I think this is partly true as well. Maybe it seemed that way to the driver of the car (driving over the limit) who knocked down and killed the guy who had almost completed a circuit of Kent for charity. She didn't stop. http://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/new ... lief-14705

thirdcrank
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby thirdcrank » 26 Nov 2014, 6:50pm

oneten wrote: ... So the environment within the vehicle becomes like a simulator and the road conditions ahead like that which appears on the screen of a virtual driving game. I'm probably stretching the analogy a bit too far but I think this is partly true as well. Maybe it seemed that way to the driver of the car (driving over the limit) who knocked down and killed the guy who had almost completed a circuit of Kent for charity. She didn't stop. http://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/new ... lief-14705


I'm not clear what point you are making in the context of this thread. :?

I can't see anything in your link to connect this death to helmet wearing.

oneten
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby oneten » 26 Nov 2014, 7:12pm

Yes Pete....'If I hadn't done X , Y wouldn't have happened' ...'If I hadn't been wearing ...then X might have happened.' Those are mere speculations about what might have been. But the ones where people say, If only I'd done/worn/hadn't been wearing' etc are probably harder to come to terms with. In my case, 'If only I'd applied the brakes more gently or had slowed down earlier."

PaulB
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby PaulB » 26 Nov 2014, 10:13pm

irc wrote:
oneten wrote:Are we to conclude that cycle helmet manufacturers are somehow discredited or guilty of some elaborate scam offering expensive products that are just cosmetic with no real value from a safety point of view?


Well I looked at Giro's website for their Synthe helmet. The blurb mentions "cooling power", light weight, streamlining, sunglass dock, etc. Seems mostly cosmetics to me. Nothing about the protection offered. No claims made there at all.

http://www.giro.com/eu_en/synthe/


If you look further on the Giro website you will find a video about how they test and design their helmets using MIPS technology to reduce rotational forces (I found it on the Giro "Feature" helmet page). The sales patter about the Synthe helmet is all about style and cosmetics but then read any magazine review of cycle helmets and that is what they major on too.

The outside shape of a helmet must contribute to how the head may twist under impact. The "Feature" is more rounded than many other sporting helmets so that may reduce the chance of having one's head twisted when hitting the ground. Bern helmets are even more round - rather like skateboard helmets - so they may not grip the road or snag the surface as much as the more streamlined models.

broadway
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby broadway » 26 Nov 2014, 10:52pm

PaulB wrote:
irc wrote:
oneten wrote:Are we to conclude that cycle helmet manufacturers are somehow discredited or guilty of some elaborate scam offering expensive products that are just cosmetic with no real value from a safety point of view?


Well I looked at Giro's website for their Synthe helmet. The blurb mentions "cooling power", light weight, streamlining, sunglass dock, etc. Seems mostly cosmetics to me. Nothing about the protection offered. No claims made there at all.

http://www.giro.com/eu_en/synthe/


If you look further on the Giro website you will find a video about how they test and design their helmets using MIPS technology to reduce rotational forces (I found it on the Giro "Feature" helmet page). The sales patter about the Synthe helmet is all about style and cosmetics but then read any magazine review of cycle helmets and that is what they major on too.

The outside shape of a helmet must contribute to how the head may twist under impact. The "Feature" is more rounded than many other sporting helmets so that may reduce the chance of having one's head twisted when hitting the ground. Bern helmets are even more round - rather like skateboard helmets - so they may not grip the road or snag the surface as much as the more streamlined models.



Or you may look further and fail to find the information :)

Bicycler
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby Bicycler » 27 Nov 2014, 12:04am

http://www.giro.com/eu_en/feature-mips-23870.html

It's certainly interesting as a helmet manufacturer acknowledging a problem exacerbated by helmets and seeking to minimise it. I'll have to remember that next time somebody suggests that helmets don't increase rotational injuries. There's a certain irony to them stating that the inspiration for their system to minimise rotation on impact was the normal interaction of skin and the human skull! Evolution is truly amazing.

But, yes, of course it is good to see a helmet manufacturer making some attempt to address concerns which others have simply denied.

TonyR
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby TonyR » 27 Nov 2014, 12:51pm

Bicycler wrote:http://www.giro.com/eu_en/feature-mips-23870.html

It's certainly interesting as a helmet manufacturer acknowledging a problem exacerbated by helmets and seeking to minimise it.


It might have more credibility if they didn't claim to "exceed stringent safety standards"

As for their MIPS system, it just looks like a rip off variant of the Phillips helmets

oneten
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby oneten » 27 Nov 2014, 7:05pm

I'm not clear what point you are making in the context of this thread. :?

I can't see anything in your link to connect this death to helmet wearing


Sorry this is unclear , it's a bit off topic and I was trying to make the point about how there is a danger of motorists not being fully aware of the reality of conditions outside their vehicles ( let alone in the case of the driver in the link who is to be prosecuted for drink driving) and it wouldn't have mattered how well protected the victim was, the poor guy didn't stand a chance.

So I agree with those who feel that cyclists wearing helmets and hi- viz clothing may not be as safe as one might think.

RobC
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby RobC » 22 Dec 2014, 11:16am


kwackers
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Re: Cycle helmet broken in fall

Postby kwackers » 22 Dec 2014, 11:27am


So the helmet separated to allow his head to go through and smack into something hard. I don't follow why people don't see that's what happened and instead believe the damage to the helmet was a metaphor for what would have happened to their heads.